DD9 rages - is this normal?

[RuperttheBearHug]

Posting here for traffic.

DD9 is worrying me. Teachers never have a bad word to say about her, doing brilliantly at school, other mums always asking for playdates as she’s so easy alongside their own children. Has three sets of GPs who dote on her, DH is a brilliant hands on Dad and she is generally a happy and popular child.

However, from time to time (sometimes every week, other times we go months with nothing) you ask her to go to bed, for example, or say no to something and she goes. Absolutely. Mental. We have always been pretty strict with her. Zero tolerance on bad manners, talking back etc but also conscious I don’t want her to feel she can’t control anything so happy to give her options when I can. But it’s like a wall goes up on these occasions and no matter what you say to her she can’t listen or engage.

She’ll keep mucking about or arguing - pushing buttons deliberately and then when we impose consequences like taking one of her toys away etc she just flips. Last night she screeched at me when this happened, told me I was “the worst mother EVER,” hit me repeatedly, slammed her bedroom door and then threw a half full bottle of drink down the stairs. We have a very gentle dog who could have been hurt so I told her it was totally unacceptable. She refused to acknowledge it and carried on screaming.

Eventually I ran out of ideas on how to handle it so I just held on to her, pulled her onto my lap and hugged her tightly, ignoring the (fairly minimal) struggling and ranting and explaining why what she did wasn’t ok. After about 5 mins she calmed down, said sorry and went to get ready for bed like nothing had happened. I was struggling not to cry. I don’t want this kind of conflict in my life and get the shudders at what would have happened if I’d behaved like this as a child. DH says it’s normal and she’s mostly brilliant so I’m overthinking.

Anyone else’s 9yo do this and how should I be handling it???

Our 9 year old has a build up of emotions then a huge (usually at night) meltdown every so often where everything comes flowing out like friendship issues, feelings about themselves, worries about the world , reactions to things they've seen and heard , big emotions. This can go in for a couple of hours. The next day they are much relieved and things move forward.

They are much better at recognising when this is going to happen and it comes less from a battle with us and more from a place where they can just let off all of the stress and steam.

Perhaps get her a journal to fill in every day to express how she's doing and encourage lots of chatter around healthy ways of getting it out of her system?

Thanks @HappyBirthdayLydia thats exactly what I had thought and we do a chat every night before bed with best part of day, worst part, thing she’s proud of, things she’s looking forward to etc. But it feels like it’s getting worse at the moment. Maybe it’s a development spurt or something….

Yup one of mine was like this. Completely normal albeit stressful. Apparently according to DMum I was similar. All the good behaviour at school, being well behaved with friends, well behaved at home etc is v demanding and occasionally a little thing tipped her over the edge. Older DD was much calmer so it was a surprise to us.

If you can spot a pattern you may be able to preempt some of it - with our DD we learnt NEVER miss a meal for example! Talking just before bed isn't ideal, she may dwell on things and worry overnight, earlier in the day is better if possible.

She is still a sensitive soul. She is also sensitive to small knocks to her confidence so we spend a lot of time talking about her strengths. But she's a thriving teen still doing well at school and hasn't had a meltdown for years.

Gosh normal. And personally I wouldn't go for punishment. She is just externalising her feelings and she needs love I think. My dd is not dissimilar and the way I see it is she's holding it together really well nearly all the time. But it's hard being a child and sometimes I think pressure just builds and explodes.

Thanks for the replies. @Pootleplum she is given at least two or three calm warnings and the problem is she just can’t engage until that ball of angst has gone. You can’t get through to her by talking, you can’t reason or negotiate with her, so the “consequences” are there to show her she needs to clear up or go to bed etc when asked but also it seems to tip her over into a place where she can release it. Then you can get through to her.

but it doesn’t feel very healthy!

@OllytheCollie yup DH says he wasn’t dissimilar so maybe it’s just me!

My friend's DD used this and apparently it was helpful

www.amazon.co.uk/Anger-Management-Workbook-Kids-Activities/dp/1641520922/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1C59VOJRX7OSJ&keywords=anger+books+for+children&qid=1675088362&sprefix=anger+for+ch%2Caps%2C81&sr=8-4

Last night she screeched at me when this happened, told me I was “the worst mother EVER,”
My DD did this last night too!

And from what I've heard from classmate's mums, quite normal. I just let her go and about 20 minutes later she sheepishly came for a hug.

yup, within the bounds of normal. My now 12yo has always throw the occasional wobbler, and the onset of puberty with the hormonal fluctuations from aged 10 added some fuel to the fire. Hunger and tiredness don't help either. Totally agree that once they're reached the point of no return you cannot get through to them and need to wait for the storm to pass.

It's tricky, as although I felt as she got older that she should be treated in a more grown up way and I would attempt to reason with her, this has never worked - when she's in one of those moods she stops really listening properly early on, and it all becomes about winning the point. To avoid wobblers when I sense one may be coming I have to make very simple, clear requests, and completely disengage when they're not followed.

Following this thread as 8yo DS has similar meltdowns, but maybe a little more often. We were wondering if it's normal or if it's an indicator some some neurodivergence or anxiety or something else going on.

I think sometimes you just have to not engage at all, so completely ignore them and leave them alone to work it out of their system. Then when reasonable again, sympathise that it was probably scary and strategise ways they can let off steam before it builds up so much. Boxing gloves and a punch bag in the garage are good. Skipping ropes and fast skipping can work. Usually physical activity as it burns off the stress hormones. Next time you think it might be building, mention the strategies and suggest that they use them. It might take a few tries to find the right combination but its really helpful to teach dc how to handle stress and big emotions safely. Handling safely does not include bottling them up or lashing out on innocent bystanders (Mums and siblings!)

All so reassuring and helpful everyone thank you! I have been worried it was anxiety related. The first time we noticed it was when she started school and she was getting caught in the middle of friend conflicts at school. That no longer seems to be a trigger but tiredness definitely doesn’t help. And @TheTurn0fTheScrew i totally relate to that past the point of no return.

Gah. The thought of these tantrums magnified by her being 5 or 6 years older terrifies me!

Completely normal. DD was very similar, but seems to be growing ire of it now (she is 11y 4m). She got a lot better at managing her feelings after she got her period.

My DS is like this and I hate it because like you, I was brought up in a family in which such behaviour would have been completely unacceptable. I do think that if you have a fairly open and loving relationship with a child, this sort of thing is a national consequence - they let it out with you instead of bottling it up. See if you can can take it as a compliment! Sounds like you’re dealing with it really well.

She needs to learn that it is okay and totally normal to feel angry, or frustrated, or upset about something. But she needs to have it made crystal clear to her that it is not okay to express those feelings through violence.

She's 9 you say, and just lately it's been getting worse. Hmm... her hormones are starting to kick in, I reckon, and the feelings they create are so overwhelming she doesn't know how to handle them. Yet.

Feeling so much better thank you everyone. @Mousta I kind of thought we were doing ok but my DM is always telling me we give her too many choices and that I need to remember she isn’t an adult so I doubt myself sometimes. I have been very strict with her on things I consider to be really important and it’s only at home behind closed doors she’s like this so hopefully it’s a sign she feels safe with us ❤️

@larchforest and @IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads it feels so early to be thinking about hormones but I got my period at 11 or 12 I think so you could well be bang on 😳😳😳

OP my soon to be 11 yo dd2 behaves in a similar way and has been since she was about the same age as your dd, so around 9 yo.

I too worried about anxiety, neuro divergence and other things. But have resigned myself to it being hormone related for now. Although she has always been a super sensitive soul, so may just be her personality.

Thank you @Meredusoleil - DD is sensitive too and has some rather strange reactions to certain things so ND and anxiety are never far from my mind!

Dd1 thinks dd2 may have anger management issues! I have also considered low self esteem.

Yes, I had this at the 9-10 mark - autism diagnosed at 13. They were meltdowns, not tantrums.

My best advice is to say nothing and be very still while it is going on. Reasoning doesn’t work at the time. I found that tight hugs, weighted blankets and her being on her own had the greatest effect. Too much talking, particularly with raised voices just overwhelms. The other thing that helped was taking the pill to suppress periods because they are a nightmare with a ND girl.

Thank you @Wavingnotdrown1ng - did your DD have any other signs that led you to seek a diagnosis may I ask?