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Original poster

Crossing a picket line

121 replies

Boneweary · 27/01/2023 07:41

Although I’ve been teaching for twenty years now this is actually the first strike that’s affected me. There was one I vaguely remember from 2011, I think, but it wasn’t a big affair at my school.

A picket line is being arranged at my school. I think I am possibly misunderstanding the language - I presume they are literally going to be rallying support and awareness and won’t physically stop me going in. But is the expectation that they are there to discourage staff going in? Probably seems like a daft question but I don’t want to annoy my colleagues: equally I don’t want to break the terms of my contract!

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 27/01/2023 12:24

KnittedCardi · 27/01/2023 12:20

HR have to balance the needs and interests of both. Whether or not they are "on your side" they still have to work within the law and comply with any legislation, and that involves challenging bad managerial practice along with supporting an employee who has been disadvantaged by any illegal practice. In my experience anyway.

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Yes I find mn quite different to my work experiences on this

NeonBoomerang · 27/01/2023 12:25

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limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 12:31

@MarshaBradyo your faith is touching and I imagine must be a great comfort to your employer.

The dispute I mentioned involved an employer making five of us redundant. There was no business case so it was it was illegal. HR compounded the original error by insisting that it was legal.

As I said, I have no idea whether it was incompetence, malice or a combination of both. It was quite costly but not to us. We wouldn't have got anywhere without representation from the employment lawyers attached to our union. The cost of that representation would have been beyond our reach but we got it for the very reasonable price of our subs which also include benefits like discounts on insurance, travel, consumer goods and entry to a wide variety of life-affirming cultural events.

We talked about it all the time and still do. I believe it encouraged some of our non-union colleagues to re-evaluate their previous resistance to belonging to a union. I'm sure some of them continued to think they could trust in the company to do the right thing by them. It's a free country.

ImmigrantAlice · 27/01/2023 12:33

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MarshaBradyo · 27/01/2023 12:34

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 12:31

@MarshaBradyo your faith is touching and I imagine must be a great comfort to your employer.

The dispute I mentioned involved an employer making five of us redundant. There was no business case so it was it was illegal. HR compounded the original error by insisting that it was legal.

As I said, I have no idea whether it was incompetence, malice or a combination of both. It was quite costly but not to us. We wouldn't have got anywhere without representation from the employment lawyers attached to our union. The cost of that representation would have been beyond our reach but we got it for the very reasonable price of our subs which also include benefits like discounts on insurance, travel, consumer goods and entry to a wide variety of life-affirming cultural events.

We talked about it all the time and still do. I believe it encouraged some of our non-union colleagues to re-evaluate their previous resistance to belonging to a union. I'm sure some of them continued to think they could trust in the company to do the right thing by them. It's a free country.

Actually I’m SE now and have been for a while but I’m talking about norms in my sector.

That’s how it is and people can be aghast or they can think maybe not everything is the same in other sectors to theirs.

All the sarky comments are irrelevant.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 27/01/2023 12:36

Boneweary · 27/01/2023 07:47

@underneaththeash i think there is something in the Union literature I have seen that says not to cross a picket line or that I don’t have to. I don’t know how the HT would know who isn’t coming in due to picket line and who is actually striking, though!

It's a psychological pressure tactic. Of course you can go into work normally as you see fit.

Alexandernevermind · 27/01/2023 12:39

Picket lines as I remember them aren't appropriate outside a school are they? Lots of shouting, banner holding, passing cars beeping whilst children are trying to get it? Hopefully it'll be much more civilised than the last picket line I saw.

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 12:42

KnittedCardi · 27/01/2023 12:20

HR have to balance the needs and interests of both. Whether or not they are "on your side" they still have to work within the law and comply with any legislation, and that involves challenging bad managerial practice along with supporting an employee who has been disadvantaged by any illegal practice. In my experience anyway.

Show quote history

@KnittedCardi as you can see from my replies to @MarshaBradyo I have direct experience of HR and the company not working within the law when attempting to make five of us redundant.

As I said, I have no idea whether it was incompetence, malice or a combination of both but they were absolutely convinced and aggressive in their insistence that they had not made a mistake until our lawyer talked to their outside lawyer and it was agreed that they had.

That legal representation would have been beyond our means but for the price of our subs we received a handsomely enhanced settlement.

For some people union membership is not worth it but I think it always pays to check.

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 12:44

Alexandernevermind · 27/01/2023 12:39

Picket lines as I remember them aren't appropriate outside a school are they? Lots of shouting, banner holding, passing cars beeping whilst children are trying to get it? Hopefully it'll be much more civilised than the last picket line I saw.

I heard some of them bring their dogs...

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 12:52

Actually I’m SE now and have been for a while but I’m talking about norms in my sector.

@MarshaBradyo I'm self employed now too and still in a union. They moved me to the freelance branch which has been invaluable for reminding some of the companies I work for, all in the private sector. to pay me on time and properly and not to steal my valuable copyright. If I wasn't in a union I would just have put up with it. It's amazing what a legal letter and threat to take action will do.

Cocobutt · 27/01/2023 12:54

I am a member of the striking union but I am not striking.

I fully support the ones that are but I work in the SEND ARB and although we are associated with the school, we are completely separated.

I’ve been told I’ll be breaching my contract if I strike because it doesn’t affect us (even though the unit will be closed too) but I have the other staff and union rep (who is also assistant head) almost guilting me into not going into work.

I am up to my ears in work as not only do I have the normal lesson planning and marking but being in a SEND school there is lots of extra paper work, so I could really do with going in to work with no students there.

But we need to go to the main school to sign in before going to the unit and I don’t want to have to walk past the picket line!

DuffLite · 27/01/2023 12:55

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Cocobutt · 27/01/2023 12:55

I don’t know how the HT would know who isn’t coming in due to picket line and who is actually striking, though!

We have to register on the day.

MarshaBradyo · 27/01/2023 13:01

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 12:52

Actually I’m SE now and have been for a while but I’m talking about norms in my sector.

@MarshaBradyo I'm self employed now too and still in a union. They moved me to the freelance branch which has been invaluable for reminding some of the companies I work for, all in the private sector. to pay me on time and properly and not to steal my valuable copyright. If I wasn't in a union I would just have put up with it. It's amazing what a legal letter and threat to take action will do.

Limited I’d not undermine anyone’s experience but I’m interested which sector are you in? You don’t have to say

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 13:14

@MarshaBradyo As I said I work in the private sector. Do you mean to ask my industry? That's journalism. Union membership is less common in the private sector than the public but still considerable.

Brefugee · 27/01/2023 13:25

I know public sector it’s the norm but it’s just not usual and HR is the go to.

if you are disputing your company illegally firing you, for eg, how do you think HR will help you? In my sector i would bet half my wages that I'm one of about 2% of people who are in a union. Where i work now nobody knows, but if i need them, they are there. HR will only ever defend the company.

Original poster
Boneweary · 27/01/2023 13:30

To be honest, my experience of teaching unions hasn’t been brilliant. I do think a lot of teachers think if there is ever an issue they will leap in like Rottweilers to protect their members but this is far from true in my experience.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 27/01/2023 13:31

The dispute I mentioned involved an employer making five of us redundant. There was no business case so it was it was illegal. HR compounded the original error by insisting that it was legal.

oh don't! when my company tried something similar 2 of us were in a union. So we immediately got onto it, and were paid (in my case a not incosiderable sum) redundancy. everyone else? had to whistle. We managed to persuade the company to give 3 months instead of one month's notice, but all the people who had been calling me Karl Marx (I was never silent about being in a union) were suddenly very interested in collective bargaining and several noses were put out of joint when they joined up only to be told the union can't help with already established disputes.

In this case HR were the ones compounding the mistakes, by writing letter after letter sacking us and more, without consulting the lawyers. Am assuming they were fired.

Teafor1please · 27/01/2023 13:37

Boneweary · 27/01/2023 13:30

To be honest, my experience of teaching unions hasn’t been brilliant. I do think a lot of teachers think if there is ever an issue they will leap in like Rottweilers to protect their members but this is far from true in my experience.

I agree with this entirely. I have been really disappointed when trying to get union help.

Original poster
Boneweary · 27/01/2023 13:41

The problem is that the way schools are set up means that Headteachers are extremely powerful. Essentially, you’ve either got a decent Head, or you haven’t.

Dismissing a teacher is a long process (assuming lack of competence rather than safeguarding or similar) but it’s easy to start the process and once the process has started the consequences for the teacher are grave. There is unfortunately very little that the unions can do in such circumstances.

OP posts:
babynoname22 · 27/01/2023 13:43

@Boneweary it doesn't break your continuous service at all. It's a union strike. However you've said you're in NASWUT who aren't striking so you crack on as normal and hope the NEU can move forward to support ALL teachers including NAWSWUT members

FinallyHere · 27/01/2023 13:45

take some snacks or a flask for the picket line.

This

And the hot drink at break time.

When the 'junior doctors' were striking at the hospital close to our corporate headquarters, we kept them supplied first with fancy donuts, then as we got to know them, snacks of their choice.

Mostly to demonstrate solidarity, I think it's the decent thing to do.

babynoname22 · 27/01/2023 13:45

@Cocobutt you do not have sign anything you do not have declare you are striking. Simple do not turn up for work. They will soon realise you're not there and dock pay.

Original poster
Boneweary · 27/01/2023 13:49

@babynoname22 i think it may - I am not an expert but there is this on the NEUs website about it.

Crossing a picket line
OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 27/01/2023 13:50

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2023 13:14

@MarshaBradyo As I said I work in the private sector. Do you mean to ask my industry? That's journalism. Union membership is less common in the private sector than the public but still considerable.

Yes I was interested in the industry