Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter

132 replies

Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 16:13

Prosecutors have announced they will file criminal charges against Hollywood star and producer Alec Baldwin following the death of Halyna Hutchins in 2021. The cinematographer died after a prop gun held by Baldwin was discharged during rehearsals for the western film Rust.

The film's armourer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who was responsible for weapons on set, is also facing the same charge over the fatal shooting, while assistant director David Halls has signed a plea agreement for the charge of negligent use of a deadly weapon.

OP posts:
OneFrenchEgg · 19/01/2023 18:02

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59035488.amp

Here's a bit of context. Also, common sense and guidance says he shouldn't have pointed the gun at anyone, should have attended safety briefings, should have checked for himself - he was also the producer so bears responsibility for the choice of armourer and safety on set. He may not be found guilty but I assume there is enough to merit the charges.

Original poster
Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 18:50

We've now had a statement for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who was also charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter over the death of Halyna Hutchins.

It said that the charges were the result of a "very flawed investigation".
"Hannah is, and has always been, very emotional and sad about this tragic accident," the statement added.
"But she did not commit involuntary manslaughter. These charges are the result of a very flawed investigation, and an inaccurate understanding of the full facts.

"We intend to bring the full truth to light and believe Hannah will be exonerated of wrongdoing by a jury."

OP posts:
sensechec · 19/01/2023 18:52

Usergjdksndjsn · 19/01/2023 16:48

I agree with @blacksax
if the person in charge of guns told me the prop gun was safe, how else can I check it’s safe?
the only thing that would change that is if that person had been prevented from doing their job in a safe way, then whoever made those decisions preventing safe working is just as culpable, which may well be the case here

You're never ever supposed to pull the trigger while pointing a gun at someone unless you intend to cause harm. He should never have pulled the trigger.

Original poster
Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 18:56

With regards to the rules about pointing and pulling triggers, how do they actual film gun scenes? I’m guessing clever camera angles and cuts?

OP posts:
WeepingSomnambulist · 19/01/2023 18:57

Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 17:05

For those in the know, why is this case considered involuntary manslaughter but Brandon Lee’s similar death was ruled as an accident due to negligence?

Brandon Lee was killed by a gun with a blank. No live round. A blank and it went wrong. It was an accident.

This was not. Baldwin was a producer; he was in charge. It was his film, his set. He is responsible.
The armourer was in charge of weapons. It was her job. She is responsible.

The crew used to use the production's guns to go target shooting with live rounds. Baldwin, as overall boss took responsibilityas soon as he allowed that. The armourer took responsibility for making the weapons safe again as soon as she allowed that.

sensechec · 19/01/2023 18:58

Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 18:56

With regards to the rules about pointing and pulling triggers, how do they actual film gun scenes? I’m guessing clever camera angles and cuts?

I would assume so yes, point and shoot at nothing but film trickery

Fullsomefrenchie · 19/01/2023 19:02

LadyHarmby · 19/01/2023 16:52

Based on the facts we know, it seems harsh to me. The people in charge of the guns and ammunition are the culpable ones.

He was in charge overall and Responsinle to ensure safe practices on site. It’s like a company director being held responsible if their company does something dangerous.

he’s basically being charged with gross negligence leading to manslaughter.

I suspect they have a case.

Fullsomefrenchie · 19/01/2023 19:06

Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 17:12

Also, does involuntary manslaughter mean a jail sentence if found guilty?

Yes and a hefty one, think it’s up to 12 years in the states,.

the other issue is he’s denying pulling the trigger and said it just went off. The fbi have concluded that can’t be possible and he fired.

so multiple errors . Lack of safe practices on set, live ammunition on set, pointing the gun and firing, all these things could be proven as gross negligence. And as such he could go down.

OneFrenchEgg · 19/01/2023 19:08

Harrysfrostbittentodger · 19/01/2023 18:56

With regards to the rules about pointing and pulling triggers, how do they actual film gun scenes? I’m guessing clever camera angles and cuts?

Yes, this. There's ways to make it safe - l do think we don't have all the investigation results obviously so they may have evidence that points to negligence or reckless behaviour

Fullsomefrenchie · 19/01/2023 19:12

Norov · 19/01/2023 16:57

He will probably be found not guilty based on jurors agreeing with what blacksax thinks. And I think that would be a just outcome.

I can understand her family probably wanting someone to be charged. I would just hope he isn’t found guilty as I don’t think that would be fair.

Why do you think it wouldn’t be fair? It was his film, his set. His company . He was responsible for ensuring safe practices on set. He was also not permitted to point a real fire arm and pull the trigger. The rules were changed after Brandon Lee died. That’s why he’s denying pulling the trigger. It makes him culpable.

they need to prove he didn’t discharge his responsibility correctly and ensure a safe set , that he’d done everything to ensure it was operating correctly as far as he could ensure, and/or they need to prove he pointer and pulled the trigger at point blank range, when it was not allowed, as even s blank can kill.

SpacersChoice · 19/01/2023 19:15

OneFrenchEgg · 19/01/2023 19:08

Yes, this. There's ways to make it safe - l do think we don't have all the investigation results obviously so they may have evidence that points to negligence or reckless behaviour

Show quote history

There was live bullets in the gun and there shouldn’t have been, for a start.

The DAs wouldn’t be bringing this to court without a fuck tonne of evidence from credible sources.

Isthisexpected · 19/01/2023 19:23

I don't really understand. If he is being charged because of his responsibility beyond being the person who fired the gun then why not a corporate charge? If he is being charged as the person who fired the gun it seems unjust to me as he would have no reason to like it had any ammunition in it. George Clooney did an interview on this with Marc Maron and also covered what happened with Brandon Lee. He said since Lee there shouldn't have been ammunition on set and that as Alec would have been passed the gun it would have been confirmed "not hot". I don't see how this was Alec's fault if it didn't happen that way.

It's a bit like one of those magic shows going wrong when a member of the public audience volunteers for a trick. You put your trust in the professionals that everything is safe and would never think it's a real knife etc.

ThePalace · 19/01/2023 19:23

Suzi89 · 19/01/2023 16:54

He wasn’t just an actor in this film, he was the director and hired the crew. He hired an extremely young and inexperienced armourer as a way of saving money. This was his decision and knowing that he should have checked the gun.

Show quote history

Totally incorrect. He was not the director, he was co-producer.

Pinkdafodils · 19/01/2023 19:25

The rules required him NOT to point a gun at a person and pull the trigger. Whether it's loaded or not!

He definitely misbehaved

Pinkdafodils · 19/01/2023 19:27

He was responsible for ensuring safe practices on set. He was also not permitted to point a real fire arm and pull the trigger. The rules were changed after Brandon Lee died. That’s why he’s denying pulling the trigger. It makes him culpable.

Exactly this!

Of course he pulled the trigger

Pinkdafodils · 19/01/2023 19:29

the other issue is he’s denying pulling the trigger and said it just went off. The fbi have concluded that can’t be possible and he fired.

How can a bullet get triggered from a gun without pulling the trigger Confused

Waspsnbees · 19/01/2023 19:30

Horizons83 · 19/01/2023 17:01

I assume he's been charged as the director, rather than because he happened to me the one who held the gun?

there were multiple producers. none have been charged. so i don't think he's been charged as a producer (which i think he/they should be).

Tamarindtree · 19/01/2023 19:31

My dream is that he’s found guilty and after the verdict is read out, Baldwin about to explode with rage is suddenly stunned into silence by the appearance of Trump standing up in the courtroom and slow clapping as Baldwin is led out past his wife Hilary, who screeches in her fake Spanish accent, ‘I wanna a deeee-vorce and Imma take you to the cleeeeaners!’

And then he gets to share his cell with a right wing extremist who laughs at Baldwin’s Liberal tears every single day.

Daftasabroom · 19/01/2023 19:32

blacksax · 19/01/2023 16:41

why on earth would there be live bullets on film set anyway?!

Exactly. So why on earth would he have even considered the possibility that there might be? Film armourers and stunt co-ordinators are highly trained professionals, and are responsible for the safety of everyone on set. Actors and other crew are totally used to props being made safe for them, and they place their trust in the hands of the professionals.

He would have not for one moment thought that the gun was unsafe and contained live ammunition. Why would he? No actor would ever expect to be handed a gun with real bullets in it.

This is a terrible tragedy for all concerned, but I don't really think he was the culpable party.

AB was also one of the Producers so he also had a duty of care to everyone on set, that people knew their jobs, were appropriately trained, and the appropriate protocols were in followed. He was effectively one of the senior management team of an organism that made mistakes leading to the death of a team member.

Pinkdafodils · 19/01/2023 19:34

Horizons83 · 19/01/2023 17:01

I assume he's been charged as the director, rather than because he happened to me the one who held the gun?

I heard in the news that it's because he held the gun, pointed it at a person and pulled the trigger.
That's not allowed apparently, so he didn't follow the safety guidelines

WetBandits · 19/01/2023 19:35

The whole situation is awful. I wouldn’t have expected a live weapon to be handed to me as a prop, either. I wouldn’t even know how to check if it was loaded or not!

I can see how Halyna’s family want someone to be held accountable as they have lost a mother, partner, daughter, but I can’t fathom how a custodial sentence would be of any benefit to anyone as this was essentially a tragic accident. Baldwin doesn’t strike me as a dangerous menace to society; I doubt he will ever handle a gun, loaded or not, again in his life after this.

lemmein · 19/01/2023 19:35

I don't understand how this could have happened without somebody deliberately sabotaging the gun. Why would live rounds even be on the set? Seems bizarre, but maybe that's not so out of the ordinary in the US?

Hasn't Alec Baldwin been vocally against guns in the past?

The whole thing reeks of a set-up.

Pinkdafodils · 19/01/2023 19:35

He would have not for one moment thought that the gun was unsafe and contained live ammunition. Why would he? No actor would ever expect to be handed a gun with real bullets in it.

Even safe guns are not allowed to be pointed at people during filming.

Pinkdafodils · 19/01/2023 19:37

but I can’t fathom how a custodial sentence would be of any benefit to anyone

It would act as a deterrent to future film producers - not to point a gun, live or not, at a person.

Patineur · 19/01/2023 19:38

Tamarindtree · 19/01/2023 19:31

My dream is that he’s found guilty and after the verdict is read out, Baldwin about to explode with rage is suddenly stunned into silence by the appearance of Trump standing up in the courtroom and slow clapping as Baldwin is led out past his wife Hilary, who screeches in her fake Spanish accent, ‘I wanna a deeee-vorce and Imma take you to the cleeeeaners!’

And then he gets to share his cell with a right wing extremist who laughs at Baldwin’s Liberal tears every single day.

That's just weird. This is about someone who died, not about right wing politics.