Page 2 | How long should probate take?

Cileymyrus · 2023-01-17T22:26:07+00:00

Keeping an eye on the gov website to see when an elderly relative’s will is sorted. they died in sept, nothing yet, but I see there’s a lot of people who died sept/oct/nov whose probate is through already. it should be very straightforward, as far as we know there were mirror wills so everything goes to their surviving partner. Fairly sure probate is required because they had separate bank accounts as well as joint ones (from the reading I’ve done probate is only usually not needed if everything is joint?) what could be holding it up?

Everyonehasavoice · 18/01/2023 14:39

Cileymyrus · 18/01/2023 14:35

Blimey some waits there! 10 years! 😳

to clarify:

spouse was executor and sole beneficiary.

the son is somehow now executor (form pp mentioned?) without involving siblings.

house isn’t part of probate, but I presume son can’t sell it until after probate as the deceased will still be on deeds etc?

house is on SE coast so £££££££.

Why isn’t the house part of probate
If it isn’t, why can’t who ever owns it just sell it.

ifonly4 · 18/01/2023 14:41

Cileymyrus Sorry might be reading this wrong, but are you saying that the relative is the surviving spouse and they didn't know someone else was acting as Executor instead of them?

Either way at the end, the Executor will have to deal with any taxes in the estate (that can take a while to confirm whether or not there are any payable) and should produce a detailed account if requested of all funds entering the estate and being paid out.

ifonly4 · 18/01/2023 14:46

Sorry just read your spouse. Is the spouse and beneficiary mentally incapable, ie has a registered Power of Attorney or Enduring Power of Attorney. If not, I wouldn't be happy that someone has taken over Executorship and would either take legal advice or at lease notify local Probate Registry there are concerns over the Executor.

Everyonehasavoice · 18/01/2023 14:49

Cileymyrus · 18/01/2023 12:50

This is the issue.

relative is concerned that they aren’t being told anything. They didn’t even know sibling had replaced the surviving spouse as executor, or that the sibling has done all the POA forms without informing the other two siblings.

i’m on the periphery but getting a lot of frustrated phone calls- if they question the son who’s nominated himself as dealing with it all the communication stops completely, so they’re trying not to rock the boat at the moment.

the concern is for their parent now, as this son now has sole control of all their assets once probate goes through.

ducks in a row and all that.

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This doesn’t make sense
The son can’t just take over as executor unless the will states the son as a ‘ second’ in case the spouse chooses not to do it.

Does the will state this

Also the son can’t just chose to sell the house, it’s not his!!!
I would be very worried about what’s going on.
Is the surviving spouse being pushed into these things. Before you know it the house will be sold without the spouse realising what’s going on and they’ll be in a care home and miserable.

You have every reason to be worried as do the other siblings. They need to get together with the surviving spouse and get to the bottom of this.

torquewench · 18/01/2023 14:52

PAFMO · 18/01/2023 08:54

Probate for my mother, simple will, me as sole beneficiary, no debts, no mortgages, nothing, me as next of kin etc etc took from June 2020 to March of 2022.
"Because COVID" etc etc.
I was on several threads here at the time, some posters were getting theirs through in 20 days, others had been waiting longer than me.

Not just because of covid. There was an increase in probate registry fees. that caused a massive backlog due to the influx of applications received to get them in before the increase.

beeswa · 18/01/2023 16:08

I do this for a living . At the moment it's taking a very approx 6-8 months.

Iv just submitted a case and I'm not expecting it back til August . There's a huge backlog at the probate office

Greatly · 18/01/2023 16:09

We applied end October and were told 6 months. Nothing complicated.

mrsbyers · 18/01/2023 16:10

We applied in Oct and it came through first week of Jan but it was a straight forward case and no inheritance tax involved

beeswa · 18/01/2023 16:11

Cileymyrus · 18/01/2023 14:35

Blimey some waits there! 10 years! 😳

to clarify:

spouse was executor and sole beneficiary.

the son is somehow now executor (form pp mentioned?) without involving siblings.

house isn’t part of probate, but I presume son can’t sell it until after probate as the deceased will still be on deeds etc?

house is on SE coast so £££££££.

Some people name their spouse plus others as executor . A family member has spouse plus 4 children . One of the children has applied for probate but everyone is list on the forms.

He house will be part of the probate , it's an asset , and is part of
The estate . He can put the house on the market but can't complete til probate has been recieved .

mrsbyers · 18/01/2023 16:12

Just checked applied 12th Oct , approved 17th Dec

mimbleandlittlemy · 18/01/2023 16:14

My mum died at the start of September 2020 and we had probate through on the Friday of the late May bank holiday weekend in 2021.

mimbleandlittlemy · 18/01/2023 16:16

Just to add to that - there was inheritance tax to pay and the probate solicitor made a bit of a meal of something that actually wasn't a problem in the end but we had been warned it could take up to a year, so 9 months was felt to be pretty good going.

ifonly4 · 18/01/2023 16:31

beeswa · 18/01/2023 16:11

Some people name their spouse plus others as executor . A family member has spouse plus 4 children . One of the children has applied for probate but everyone is list on the forms.

He house will be part of the probate , it's an asset , and is part of
The estate . He can put the house on the market but can't complete til probate has been recieved .

Show quote history

If spouse and another named as Executor, they both have to be aware of finances in the estate and sign documents, so should be working together, unless it's been agreed something withdraws. Again, spouse isn't comfortable with what's going on, I'd take legal advice.

norkmonster · 18/01/2023 16:33

I'm going through this process at the moment. As I understand your situation:-

elderly relative died
all assets owned by them were to pass by will to surviving spouse
surviving spouse was named as sole executor of the will

Are you sure that probate has been applied for? It may not be needed if the "big" things (house, any large amounts in savings etc) are in joint names. When my father died as everything save for a couple of small bank accounts were in joint names and all passed to my mother we didn't need to go through probate. It's only if there are, eg, bank accounts with more than £20,000 in them that you need to get probate in these circumstances.

Son can only act as executor if he has been replaced as such - either by way of an application to remove the surviving spouse as executor or as a result of the named executor formally renouncing.

I assume that the surviving spouse has mental capacity to act as executor and to deal with their own affairs and finances although you mentioned POA. Has the son applied for Power of Attorney over the surviving spouse's finances? If so, then the situation is very different and it's not really probate that you need to be worrying about. It strikes me from what you've said about him wanting to sell the house etc that this may be more likely. Otherwise, the executor of a straightforward will like this would not sell the house, it would be up to the person inheriting it to make that decision.

beeswa · 18/01/2023 16:37

@ifonly4 I agree . All executors need to sign a declaration that everything is submitted is true .

If the spouse isn't happy then would they have signed? It sounds complicated and i would be seeking legal advice .

Unless the person who has taken the role has a letter of authority to act on there behalf . Example , if someone asked our firm to be executor rather than what's in the Will, we would need letters of authority from executors to authorise this . Sorry if Iv missed understood ...

beeswa · 18/01/2023 16:41

norkmonster · 18/01/2023 16:33

I'm going through this process at the moment. As I understand your situation:-

elderly relative died
all assets owned by them were to pass by will to surviving spouse
surviving spouse was named as sole executor of the will

Are you sure that probate has been applied for? It may not be needed if the "big" things (house, any large amounts in savings etc) are in joint names. When my father died as everything save for a couple of small bank accounts were in joint names and all passed to my mother we didn't need to go through probate. It's only if there are, eg, bank accounts with more than £20,000 in them that you need to get probate in these circumstances.

Son can only act as executor if he has been replaced as such - either by way of an application to remove the surviving spouse as executor or as a result of the named executor formally renouncing.

I assume that the surviving spouse has mental capacity to act as executor and to deal with their own affairs and finances although you mentioned POA. Has the son applied for Power of Attorney over the surviving spouse's finances? If so, then the situation is very different and it's not really probate that you need to be worrying about. It strikes me from what you've said about him wanting to sell the house etc that this may be more likely. Otherwise, the executor of a straightforward will like this would not sell the house, it would be up to the person inheriting it to make that decision.

My family member who Iv applied for had joint accounts , and few assets solely in their name . The majority of them asked for Probate before releasing funds majority of these are under 30k

We applied for probate for when the spouse passes or sells the house , as you will be asked for probate for the deceased as part of the house sale . We have done it save doing it twice when the time comes .

norkmonster · 18/01/2023 16:54

@beeswa interesting - we've been told re bank accounts if the amounts are less than £20,000 then most (not all) banks won't require probate. If the assets are somewhere between £20,000 and £30,000 then you probably would need it - we do. Wrt the house - if it's held in joint names and one dies with their share going to the survivor, then why would you need to apply for probate, just send a DJP (deceased joint proprietor form) to the Land Registry along with a copy of the death certificate. Or am I missing something?

I think the position re letters of authority is that they authorise you to act as agent of the executor, not replace them as executor. The executor remains in control of the estate. If the OP is right and the son is now the sole executor then the surviving spouse must have been removed / replaced. Or the son has been appointed as an additional executor or has been given power to act under power of attorney (but I'm not sure that power of attorney in this case would be applicable - it's usually used where the named executor is temporarily unable to act as they are eg living abroad). It's often very difficult to work out what's going on when you're getting information second or third hand as the OP is.

BestIsWest · 18/01/2023 17:03

I think it can be more than £20000. We didn’t need probate at all for DF’s will where DM was executor and sole beneficiary. IIRC it was £50000 with some banks - Barclays, Santander and Nationwide for example.

Greatly · 18/01/2023 17:10

Or am I missing something?

House needs to be valued and is part of the estate so included in probate

beeswa · 18/01/2023 17:15

norkmonster · 18/01/2023 16:54

@beeswa interesting - we've been told re bank accounts if the amounts are less than £20,000 then most (not all) banks won't require probate. If the assets are somewhere between £20,000 and £30,000 then you probably would need it - we do. Wrt the house - if it's held in joint names and one dies with their share going to the survivor, then why would you need to apply for probate, just send a DJP (deceased joint proprietor form) to the Land Registry along with a copy of the death certificate. Or am I missing something?

I think the position re letters of authority is that they authorise you to act as agent of the executor, not replace them as executor. The executor remains in control of the estate. If the OP is right and the son is now the sole executor then the surviving spouse must have been removed / replaced. Or the son has been appointed as an additional executor or has been given power to act under power of attorney (but I'm not sure that power of attorney in this case would be applicable - it's usually used where the named executor is temporarily unable to act as they are eg living abroad). It's often very difficult to work out what's going on when you're getting information second or third hand as the OP is.

Yes , depends on the company . But we have been asked for probate on assets as low as £5k...

In our case half the house and been left in trust .

Reading and running at the moment . As off to sort out kids etc

agree . I think if there is ant contention legal advise should be sort.

norkmonster · 18/01/2023 17:23

If the house is passed to the surviving spouse / civil partner it doesn't count towards the value of the estate (and no other assets passing directly to the surviving spouse / civil partner count towards the value either). The only reason you need probate is to get banks / other assets released to you as executor if they won't do it without probate because of the size of the assets. You don't need to apply for probate in every case.

dogdaydown · 18/01/2023 17:24

determinedtomakethiswork · 18/01/2023 09:07

Does anyone know why someone's will might not appear online when it has gone through probate?

No, it should show on the probate website,

Original poster

Cileymyrus · 18/01/2023 18:28

Maybe there isn’t probate then 🤷‍♀️.

this is part of the issue, son isn’t telling anyone anything.

i know the wills were written so everything was split between the three siblings. I assume this again was only after both parents died.

parent is elderly and needs reasonable assistance, but still knows their own mind. Son is autistic and a very difficult personality, so could be (intentionally or unintentionally) being controlling.

if there’s no probate though why would they still not be able to market the house or receive their share of their spouses estate? Surely no probate means everything would be done quick and easy?

I do have concerns the son is pulling a fast one which is why I’m so invested 😂. I wondered if he’s done something that has triggered the hold up.

OP posts:

dogdaydown · 18/01/2023 18:41

Cileymyrus · 18/01/2023 18:28

Maybe there isn’t probate then 🤷‍♀️.

this is part of the issue, son isn’t telling anyone anything.

i know the wills were written so everything was split between the three siblings. I assume this again was only after both parents died.

parent is elderly and needs reasonable assistance, but still knows their own mind. Son is autistic and a very difficult personality, so could be (intentionally or unintentionally) being controlling.

if there’s no probate though why would they still not be able to market the house or receive their share of their spouses estate? Surely no probate means everything would be done quick and easy?

I do have concerns the son is pulling a fast one which is why I’m so invested 😂. I wondered if he’s done something that has triggered the hold up.

They can market the house but not complete on the sale.

C8H10N4O2 · 19/01/2023 13:29

Cileymyrus · 18/01/2023 18:28

Maybe there isn’t probate then 🤷‍♀️.

this is part of the issue, son isn’t telling anyone anything.

i know the wills were written so everything was split between the three siblings. I assume this again was only after both parents died.

parent is elderly and needs reasonable assistance, but still knows their own mind. Son is autistic and a very difficult personality, so could be (intentionally or unintentionally) being controlling.

if there’s no probate though why would they still not be able to market the house or receive their share of their spouses estate? Surely no probate means everything would be done quick and easy?

I do have concerns the son is pulling a fast one which is why I’m so invested 😂. I wondered if he’s done something that has triggered the hold up.

Is the parent the beneficiary and is the son the sole executor? If the parent is mentally competent and the beneficiary of the spouse's half of the property its hard to see any solicitor going along with an executor making a parent homeless without her consent.

If the son is not the sole executor in the will then the other executor(s) should have full sight of all actions and agree to them. (IME all executors have to sign documents to release assets, not just one who has declared they are taking over).