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Original poster

Is the following illegal or just unethical?

16 replies

OntarioBagnet · 15/01/2023 16:35

So I’m a member at an upmarket gym. They offered a members draw with a prize worth over 1k last Oct. A bike. Any member who signed a new member up got entered into a draw. Draw to take place end of Oct I managed to sign five people up which to be honest took some effort on my part, so I should have been entered into the draw five times according to their poster. The bike was displayed in the gym. Anyway I didn’t win, no winner was announced either but didn’t think much of it.

the same bike has now been displayed again with the same offer. Draw to take place end of feb. It is 100% the same bike, same make model, year, size, colour and serial number. The bike shop who are named as donating the prize have confirmed to me they only gave the gym one bike and have said it’s the same one. Obviously they had no idea it’s been “raffled off” more than once.

But I think the gym are being very naughty.

OP posts:
Yesthatismychildsigh · 15/01/2023 16:37

Have you not asked? That needs to be your first action. There are very strict rules for this sort of thing.

Original poster
OntarioBagnet · 15/01/2023 16:44

I asked the bike shop today, just to make sure they haven’t donated another exact same bike because otherwise I knew the gym would try and fob me off. Now I’m 100% sure I will be asking the gym manager tomorrow but wanted to know before talking to them would this count as fraud, or not. . Because I guess nobody paid to enter the draw so don’t know how bad it is what they’ve done.

OP posts:
MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 15/01/2023 16:45

It’s fraud

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Georgeskitchen · 15/01/2023 16:47

Speak to trading standards this sounds illegal.

InvalidCrumb · 15/01/2023 16:48

Yep, draws advertised like this have to stick to very strict rules. The gym should have a record of the winner and if they did not do the draw it's fraud.

Almostlegible · 15/01/2023 16:50

If the draw went ahead they will be able to tell you the name of the winner.
If it didn’t i.e. it’s somehow been extended, then I would ask them to confirm that you will be included, and to confirm to everyone else too.
And maybe also ask who is in charge of the draw to make sure it’s fair.

MeganLogan · 15/01/2023 16:52

So the CAP and ASA deal with competitions like this and this is who you will report this to if you don’t get a decent answer from the gym. Completely not on!

Original poster
OntarioBagnet · 15/01/2023 16:58

MeganLogan · 15/01/2023 16:52

So the CAP and ASA deal with competitions like this and this is who you will report this to if you don’t get a decent answer from the gym. Completely not on!

Thank you. I’m going to talk to the gym tomorrow and then report them.

OP posts:
RancidOldHag · 15/01/2023 16:59

Yes, it's illegal. IANAL - but have organised PTA rafffles (and had to deal with the fallout when a pledged prize (mentioned on the raffle tickets) from a business did not materialise)

Lotteries (raffles are a kind of lottery) are regulated by the Gambling Commission.

As this is a small lottery run by a business for its clients, it doesn't need a licence. But the value of the prize should be under £50 in that case. So this one, with a more valuable prize, should have been registered.

So that raffle would have to be drawn immediately after the closing date, and the prize awarded.

They need to provide details of the winner (by general publicity at time of draw and/or on request)

This new draw needs to have the prize as billed, so either they buy the prize (or seek a further donation) or they have to cancel the draw

Original poster
OntarioBagnet · 15/01/2023 17:05

RancidOldHag · 15/01/2023 16:59

Yes, it's illegal. IANAL - but have organised PTA rafffles (and had to deal with the fallout when a pledged prize (mentioned on the raffle tickets) from a business did not materialise)

Lotteries (raffles are a kind of lottery) are regulated by the Gambling Commission.

As this is a small lottery run by a business for its clients, it doesn't need a licence. But the value of the prize should be under £50 in that case. So this one, with a more valuable prize, should have been registered.

So that raffle would have to be drawn immediately after the closing date, and the prize awarded.

They need to provide details of the winner (by general publicity at time of draw and/or on request)

This new draw needs to have the prize as billed, so either they buy the prize (or seek a further donation) or they have to cancel the draw

I think because they’re not selling tickets it looks like it may not be covered by the Gambling Act. But will be covered by ASA and CAP rules.

OP posts:
WeAreAllLionesses · 15/01/2023 18:13

sorry to derail but @RancidOldHag I bid on a primary school silent auction in March 2020 and won a stay at a hotel with breakfast. Then lockdown happened and everything closed.

I emailed and FB messaged repeatedly to ask, when everything reopened, to have either my prize or an alternative (ie dinner), but have been resoundingly ignored.

Can I take it further with some regulatory body? It is a local business but they are still trading.

NoDairyNoProblem · 15/01/2023 18:17

At best it’s plain unethical and would leave me looking for another gym.

RancidOldHag · 15/01/2023 18:17

I'd start @WeAreAllLionesses by contacting the raffle organisers to say that the prize had not been honoured. See what they might be prepared to do.

Covid is a pretty major bit of force majeure, and some prizes (such as meal/activity vouchers) can have a use-by date. I really don't know what's considered reasonable when pandemic restrictions get in the way

senua · 15/01/2023 18:19

Before you confront them, I'd find the details of the draws in writing so they can't try to flannel their way out of it.

WeAreAllLionesses · 15/01/2023 18:22

RancidOldHag · 15/01/2023 18:17

I'd start @WeAreAllLionesses by contacting the raffle organisers to say that the prize had not been honoured. See what they might be prepared to do.

Covid is a pretty major bit of force majeure, and some prizes (such as meal/activity vouchers) can have a use-by date. I really don't know what's considered reasonable when pandemic restrictions get in the way

Thank you :)

StubbleAndSqueak · 15/01/2023 18:35

God that's so deceitful , I really hope you get it sorted @OntarioBagnet

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