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Original poster

Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

608 replies

junipermarten · 13/01/2023 14:46

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

OP posts:
FloydPepper · 13/01/2023 23:45

mathanxiety · 13/01/2023 22:51

And maybe this is a good time to remind people here that religious belief is a protected characteristic?

What are you suggesting?

that no one can challenge the part of that religious belief that allows for babies to have bits chopped off them?

mathanxiety · 13/01/2023 23:47

western culture is a progressive one where we challenge things that don’t work and adapt. We accept a plurality of cultures and ideas because our differences make us strong. It works as long as nobody thinks they’re better than the rest. If you live in a place you should uphold and respect its values and laws don’t you think?

Yor post has internal contradictions that you seem quite unaware of, @Weefreetiffany

The embrace of plurality involves living with differences you don't like as well as differences you think compliment western values.

Western culture likes to clap itself on the back for its progressiveness, but scratch the surface and all you have is human nature with all its problematic parts, including, very clearly, the tendency to feel one's own tribe is better than all the rest.

mathanxiety · 13/01/2023 23:52

@FloydPepper yes, precisely.

Particularly when the opinions of the practice are clearly born of general scorn for religion and belief in God, and particularly when the terminology used is intemperate and inflamatory.

If you don't like the law on this, maybe this would be a good time to remind people here that British society used to hang people and burn them at the stake for daring to hold a religious belief that wasn't in line with that of the monarch of the day. If you'd like to go back to the good old days of religious intolerance and all that that entailed, write to your MP.

snowtrees · 13/01/2023 23:53

I worked for Jewish families in the US many years ago. The boys just got done as babies. It was their norm. Healed before they were weeks old. I kinda recall talk of it being cleaner too. Only when I had a son did I question if I'd do it myself. But if I married a Jewish person prob yes as non I knew had any issues with it & part of their religion.

AndyWarholsPiehole · 13/01/2023 23:54

If you'd like to go back to the good old days of religious intolerance and all that that entailed, write to your MP.

Trying to shame people for believing lobbing off parts of a baby is wrong?

What do you think of the wine part of the ceremony that some do? Is that ok because religion?

FloydPepper · 13/01/2023 23:56

mathanxiety · 13/01/2023 23:52

@FloydPepper yes, precisely.

Particularly when the opinions of the practice are clearly born of general scorn for religion and belief in God, and particularly when the terminology used is intemperate and inflamatory.

If you don't like the law on this, maybe this would be a good time to remind people here that British society used to hang people and burn them at the stake for daring to hold a religious belief that wasn't in line with that of the monarch of the day. If you'd like to go back to the good old days of religious intolerance and all that that entailed, write to your MP.

I’m sorry but being disagreed with is not being discriminated against. I can say I disagree with someone’s religious views. I can judge them, I can call them immoral, I could insult them (I won’t). I can be as scornful as I like. None of that is discrimination.

the rightfully correct legal protection from discrimination does not and should never extend to preventing disagreement or challenge. It’s dangerous to start preventing opinion and challenge.

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:05

@FloydPepper 'mutliatation' is defined by causing a disfiguring injury.. neither were done to my child as he is not disfigured or injured? Had a small cut for a week no different to catching foreskin in a zip? Bit dramatic. A cenitmetre of usless skin was removed due to beliefs and Id do it again. Good job i dont judge people with foreskin filled with smeg causing infections.. if foreskin caused hygiene issues, or needed a cleaning regime like foreskin or often needs removing medically, id understand... oh wait....

nobody is forcing it on you so why judge lol its nonsensical. the op asked so i answered my experience. you seem lovely and open minded though. Power to you and that precious centimeter of skin you feel so strongly about..

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:10

@AndyWarholsPiehole did your child: children in your family not get jabbed with vitamin k at birth? Or vaccinated at 8 weeks, then again 3/4 more times? I bet they cried when they did. Someone who doesnt agree with vaccines would call that barbaric. Not me personally but some would so its a bit silly say you wouldnt put a child through crying for anything unnecessary when its just not in line with your own values.

FloydPepper · 14/01/2023 00:11

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:05

@FloydPepper 'mutliatation' is defined by causing a disfiguring injury.. neither were done to my child as he is not disfigured or injured? Had a small cut for a week no different to catching foreskin in a zip? Bit dramatic. A cenitmetre of usless skin was removed due to beliefs and Id do it again. Good job i dont judge people with foreskin filled with smeg causing infections.. if foreskin caused hygiene issues, or needed a cleaning regime like foreskin or often needs removing medically, id understand... oh wait....

nobody is forcing it on you so why judge lol its nonsensical. the op asked so i answered my experience. you seem lovely and open minded though. Power to you and that precious centimeter of skin you feel so strongly about..

You’re not forcing it on me no, but you are forcing it on a baby. You are removing a part of a baby’s body for no medical or sensible reason other than “god told me to”.

im allowed to find that barbaric. I’m allowed to disagree with it. I’m allowed to believe it should be illegal and I’m allowed to believe it makes you cruel.

and of course you’re allowed to be dismissive, crude, childish and sarcastic in response. Obviously.

mathanxiety · 14/01/2023 00:13

I can say I disagree with someone’s religious views. I can judge them, I can call them immoral, I could insult them (I won’t). I can be as scornful as I like. None of that is discrimination.

@FloydPepper
You can't incite hatred by use of inflammatory language, such as the word 'immoral' and the word 'mutilation'.

Challenge if you wish, but language is extremely important. Challenge without denigrating. Challenge without claiming moral superiority. Challenge without hyperbole.

Intemperate language, tone, and terms, which mischaracterise and denigrate practices that are based on religious belief, and come from a standpoint of moral superiority, are firmly in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion territory.

mathanxiety · 14/01/2023 00:14

I'll add the word 'barbaric' to my list there.

That's not an honest challenge. That's just incitement of hatred.

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/01/2023 00:14

Male circumcision is the cultural/religious norm for billions of men all over the planet. Not all of them have access to clean water for washing and it is recommended for health reasons.

If there is to be movement towards a ban, it needs to be led by circumcised men.

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:17

@mathanxiety so well put 👏🏽

FloydPepper · 14/01/2023 00:24

Ah, so now you’re talking about inciting hatred. I thought you were talking about discrimination of someone with a protected characteristic. that’s what you specifically said, and none of what anyone is saying is discrimination.

so yes, if you want to try “inciting hatred” as another reason to stop disagreement then try that. I maintain I and others are still allowed to say we feel the specific act of city vision to be immoral, barbaric and a mutilation. This is not incitement. If you feel it is, report it.

FloydPepper · 14/01/2023 00:26

And I’m going to totally ignore the attempt to label opposition to circumcision as anti semitic. That’s a cheap shot.

AndyWarholsPiehole · 14/01/2023 00:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Nicecow · 14/01/2023 00:30

I don't understand why someone would do this to their child, I don't understand why this is still an accepted practice

AndyWarholsPiehole · 14/01/2023 00:30

children in your family not get jabbed with vitamin k at birth? Or vaccinated at 8 weeks, then again 3/4 more times? I bet they cried when they did. Someone who doesnt agree with vaccines would call that barbaric

You're comparing necessary vaccinations to unnecessary chopping off parts of the body?

NeonEyes · 14/01/2023 00:30

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/01/2023 00:14

Male circumcision is the cultural/religious norm for billions of men all over the planet. Not all of them have access to clean water for washing and it is recommended for health reasons.

If there is to be movement towards a ban, it needs to be led by circumcised men.

Well no. As a mum, I get a right to protect any sons I have from having their body’s mutilated for no reason when they’re a child. If my partner/other family pushed for it, they could fuck off.

Religion and culture doesn’t have to be respected when ‘respecting’ it means cutting off healthy parts of a child. ‘Culture’ is used as an excuse for FGM also. Should we respect that? No chance.

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:33

@FloydPepper they arent necessary. Its choice?

TooBigForMyBoots · 14/01/2023 00:33

NeonEyes · 14/01/2023 00:30

Well no. As a mum, I get a right to protect any sons I have from having their body’s mutilated for no reason when they’re a child. If my partner/other family pushed for it, they could fuck off.

Religion and culture doesn’t have to be respected when ‘respecting’ it means cutting off healthy parts of a child. ‘Culture’ is used as an excuse for FGM also. Should we respect that? No chance.

Show quote history

Yes you do have that right. No one should be able to force any mother into giving consent.

However plenty of mothers do consent. That is their right.

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:33

cutiemcsweetie · 14/01/2023 00:33

@FloydPepper they arent necessary. Its choice?

Sorry was meant to @AndyWarholsPiehole

FloydPepper · 14/01/2023 00:36

I did wonder
np easily done

greenspaces4peace · 14/01/2023 00:36

@AndyWarholsPiehole standard practice in western hospitals in the 1980's was "medicinal brandy" aka "brandy soother".
a cotton ball was soaked with brandy (which btw all hospitals carried) this soaking wet cotton ball was placed into the rubber baby bottle tip.
old school history fun fact. this was given to the babies while many procedures were carried out.

naughtymouse · 14/01/2023 00:48

For cultural reasons all the boys in my family were circumcised. I point blank refused from birth until ds started having issues which then our GP said he should get circumcised due to medical reasons as it was a ongoing issue which would continue. I wanted to leave that choice to ds when he grew up for cultural reasons but at 3 years old, we searched for a paediatric urologist who was also against circumcision but 100% agreed to cases like ds needing it for medical reasons. I couldn't potty train ds as their was a restriction and the potty training failed many times. When Ds became verbal he kept on complaining that his Willy hurts all the time and he can't pee. Once ds had been circumcised which was a horrible experience, but luckily he was still in nappies and didn't see a thing. Ds was potty trained in one day after the surgical area healed as he was able to urinate freely. His temperament changed immediately in a positive way after the healing and I feel guilty that I didn't pay attention to the medical issue that was always there in plain sight whilst changing his nappy and applying Sudo cream until he verbally directed us to it, I feel guilty for not doing it sooner.