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Original poster

Militant leftie teachers will NOT be striking (NASUWT England)

167 replies

noblegiraffe · 12/01/2023 19:22

The ballots have been counted and despite 90% of the votes being in favour of strike action, only 42% of members returned their ballot therefore the 50% threshold of membership voting was not reached and strike action will not take place.

This is for NASUWT members, the second biggest teaching union. The largest teaching union, the NEU, will be announcing its results early next week (possibly Sunday). The NAHT headteachers' union will also be announcing strike ballot results shortly.

If the NEU strike and the NASUWT don't, schools still may close. If headteachers strike, who knows as it has never happened before.

OP posts:
Moonshine86 · 15/01/2023 00:34

NHUT live streaming… noble do you think they have met the threshold?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 00:45

No, not for strike action. Even their indicative ballot didn't meet the 40% of total members requirement. If they managed to meet the 50% threshold of responses, they may have enough support for action short of strike action.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 15/01/2023 07:30

Moonshine86 · 15/01/2023 00:09

So how confident are people that we have met the threshold? I’m talking NEU. I really hope we were successful.

I'm fairly confident because of my local rep inviting members to a pub to watch the live streaming of results. Don't think they would do that if they didn't know the results were likely to be positive (could be wrong obviously)

Magnanimouse · 15/01/2023 10:06

@MrsMurphyIWish @Ariautec

None of the unions are asking for additional money for schools to spend on the children. They are (reasonably) asking for a pay rise to match inflation. They will call off the strikes when they get it. There are some marginal gains to come from this in recruitment and retention of staff over time, although the national staff surveys tend to put workload/conditions as a more significant factor. Neither striking nor not striking will lead to schools being "magically awarded a lot more money", additional spend on disadvantaged children, or improvements to the terrible state of public services. It may well lead to less, as any pots of money which could go on those things will have gone on pay.

I am a member of a headteachers' union and the average HT is in the top 10% of earners. I probably am too - borderline, not sure what the threshold is. I have support staff who are getting into debt to heat their homes. Many of our families live in overcrowded households, can't afford to eat properly. My view - which is absolutely left-wing - is that the government should be taxing me more to sort out their problems and those of society as a whole, not paying me more.

Twiglets1 · 15/01/2023 10:09

Magnanimouse · 15/01/2023 10:06

@MrsMurphyIWish @Ariautec

None of the unions are asking for additional money for schools to spend on the children. They are (reasonably) asking for a pay rise to match inflation. They will call off the strikes when they get it. There are some marginal gains to come from this in recruitment and retention of staff over time, although the national staff surveys tend to put workload/conditions as a more significant factor. Neither striking nor not striking will lead to schools being "magically awarded a lot more money", additional spend on disadvantaged children, or improvements to the terrible state of public services. It may well lead to less, as any pots of money which could go on those things will have gone on pay.

I am a member of a headteachers' union and the average HT is in the top 10% of earners. I probably am too - borderline, not sure what the threshold is. I have support staff who are getting into debt to heat their homes. Many of our families live in overcrowded households, can't afford to eat properly. My view - which is absolutely left-wing - is that the government should be taxing me more to sort out their problems and those of society as a whole, not paying me more.

Don’t you think the support staff in schools should be paid more though?

Indigoshift · 15/01/2023 10:12

noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 00:11

They're live-streaming the ballot result so you'd hope they had the numbers.

The NAHT are also live-streaming their result on Monday and I'd be far less confident about them having a positive outcome though.

What time is the live stream?

Indigoshift · 15/01/2023 10:13

Sky news reporting possible teacher strikes didnt mention NAS union.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:15

NEU ballot is 5pm on Monday (link to stream): twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1614289657709170688?s=61&t=_nxofpH7Sl0DIYsGCHYXBw

OP posts:
Whinge · 15/01/2023 10:15

Indigoshift · 15/01/2023 10:12

What time is the live stream?

Show quote history

Monday at 5pm

MadeOfSteel · 15/01/2023 10:18

So, you consider a person who wants decent pay snd conditions a militant leftie? You've been reading too much Allison Pearson and Andrew Pierce.

AutoLoop · 15/01/2023 10:18

Agree with most of that, but the point is surely that you're not going to fix everything in one go. Retention is a major issue, as are the others that you raised. The fact that the govt aren't increasing funding is not a reason to not strike over pay. We have to deal with thebussues one at a time. As teachers, we fight the battles that we can.

Personally, if they were within the neu's remit, I would strike over all the issues you mentioned in your post.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:22

MadeOfSteel · 15/01/2023 10:18

So, you consider a person who wants decent pay snd conditions a militant leftie? You've been reading too much Allison Pearson and Andrew Pierce.

We're not striking though. Apparently we don't want decent pay and conditions 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
Iamnotthe1 · 15/01/2023 10:24

Magnanimouse · 15/01/2023 10:06

@MrsMurphyIWish @Ariautec

None of the unions are asking for additional money for schools to spend on the children. They are (reasonably) asking for a pay rise to match inflation. They will call off the strikes when they get it. There are some marginal gains to come from this in recruitment and retention of staff over time, although the national staff surveys tend to put workload/conditions as a more significant factor. Neither striking nor not striking will lead to schools being "magically awarded a lot more money", additional spend on disadvantaged children, or improvements to the terrible state of public services. It may well lead to less, as any pots of money which could go on those things will have gone on pay.

I am a member of a headteachers' union and the average HT is in the top 10% of earners. I probably am too - borderline, not sure what the threshold is. I have support staff who are getting into debt to heat their homes. Many of our families live in overcrowded households, can't afford to eat properly. My view - which is absolutely left-wing - is that the government should be taxing me more to sort out their problems and those of society as a whole, not paying me more.

None of the unions are asking for additional money for schools to spend on the children.

Teacher unions are not allowed to strike on any matters other than pay and conditions. As such, they cannot strike for additional money to spend on children. However:

  1. The unions have been vocal about how education should be funded better, and
  2. Demanding that the pay increases be fully funded would result in more money left to spend on children because it wouldn't have to be pulled from existing budgets.

They are (reasonably) asking for a pay rise to match inflation.

If it's a reasonable request then striking when that request is not met is also reasonable.

I am a member of a headteachers' union and the average HT is in the top 10% of earners. I probably am too - borderline, not sure what the threshold is. I have support staff who are getting into debt to heat their homes. Many of our families live in overcrowded households, can't afford to eat properly. My view - which is absolutely left-wing - is that the government should be taxing me more to sort out their problems and those of society as a whole, not paying me more.

It's not an either/or thing. That's actually right-wing propaganda. The following are all true:

  1. Support staff should absolutely be paid more. Their role is vital in supported high-quality learning.
  2. Teachers are not paid enough for the level of workload and responsibility that comes with the role. That isn't saying that teachers aren't paid well. It's saying that it's out of balance.
  3. Headteachers are higher earners but, again, it's out of balance. Compare that level of responsibility, workload and people/resource management with other fields and it's comparatively underpaid.

As all three of those statements are true, we should be fighting to get all three addressed, not ignoring them all because others aren't currently being addressed. It's not a race to the bottom. Again, that's right-wing propaganda.

Indigoshift · 15/01/2023 10:25

LBC phone in now teachers phoning up sayings they won't strike.

Indigoshift · 15/01/2023 10:26

MadeOfSteel · 15/01/2023 10:18

So, you consider a person who wants decent pay snd conditions a militant leftie? You've been reading too much Allison Pearson and Andrew Pierce.

You understand satire right?

Cherrysoup · 15/01/2023 10:28

Another rep here and I had to ask for the ballot paper, despite having just been through the training. I think it’ll be under 50% for the NEU. No surprise re NASUWT, when I was with them for nearly 20 years, they never voted to strike.

Lurkerlot · 15/01/2023 10:29

MadMadMadamMim · 12/01/2023 19:40

I am so pissed off by this. Utterly apathetic to not bother vote, and a real kick in the teeth to those that DO want to be heard on the topic of how poor conditions are in schools.

I am NEU and am hoping that more than 50% of members actually vote.

Can I ask (genuine question) if you union strikes, and you suffer wages losses, lost time, and having to catch up etc, and eventually get the pay rise you want, would that mean members of the NASUWT, will also get the benefits of the pay rise you fought for?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:33

No surprise re NASUWT, when I was with them for nearly 20 years, they never voted to strike.

We went on strike in 2011!

OP posts:
Abraxan · 15/01/2023 10:39

TheZeppo · 14/01/2023 08:48

@Rainydaize i know who is in my union from the meetings we have. The union rep would know too. I’d be very unimpressed with someone crossing a picket line, though doubt I’d say anything. Not my place.

fairly certain NEU have reached threshold in my area. Already spoken to them- I’ll be switching once it’s confirmed. I want to be heard. 42%, whatever the reason, is very poor. I won’t roll over and pretend everything is ok! If my union can’t strike- I’ll join those that can.

There are no union meetings in my school, by any of the unions.
Unless they say so individually, no one has any way of knowing who is in each union at my school. I don't know which union most of our teachers or TAs are in.

I do know several didn't appear to get ballot forms as it was mentioned in the staffroom. They didn't say which unions though.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:41

Any headteachers who don't understand why they should be considering strike action should pay attention to this graph.

If schools cannot get headteachers (or other SLT) then that will impact education and the children in those schools.

It's not about whether you are being paid more than the lowest paid in society, it's whether the pay is a fair reflection of the job. And currently it is not enough to recruit.

Militant leftie teachers will NOT be striking (NASUWT England)
OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 15/01/2023 10:56

noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:33

No surprise re NASUWT, when I was with them for nearly 20 years, they never voted to strike.

We went on strike in 2011!

Did we? Can’t remember, but I think at the time I couldn’t afford to lose a day’s wage, tbh. I remember being in school with very few others.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:57

You might be remembering when NEU went on strike a couple of times after that and NAS didn't, so had to be in school.

OP posts:
Ariautec · 15/01/2023 10:57

Magnanimouse · 15/01/2023 10:06

@MrsMurphyIWish @Ariautec

None of the unions are asking for additional money for schools to spend on the children. They are (reasonably) asking for a pay rise to match inflation. They will call off the strikes when they get it. There are some marginal gains to come from this in recruitment and retention of staff over time, although the national staff surveys tend to put workload/conditions as a more significant factor. Neither striking nor not striking will lead to schools being "magically awarded a lot more money", additional spend on disadvantaged children, or improvements to the terrible state of public services. It may well lead to less, as any pots of money which could go on those things will have gone on pay.

I am a member of a headteachers' union and the average HT is in the top 10% of earners. I probably am too - borderline, not sure what the threshold is. I have support staff who are getting into debt to heat their homes. Many of our families live in overcrowded households, can't afford to eat properly. My view - which is absolutely left-wing - is that the government should be taxing me more to sort out their problems and those of society as a whole, not paying me more.

I don't agree. I, too work in the profession. I was a HT earning less than £45,000.
This is much bigger than teacher pay.
This is about making a stand, it is about drawing attention to the state of education in this country. It is about joining with other professions to raise the profile of the mess that public services are in, especially now when we are part of a bigger, combined voice across other services. Goodness me, even OFSTED are striking as part of the civil service strike.

If teachers don't strike, the interpretation will be either ‘we are happy with our lot, no issues in education’ (as opposed to the NHS for instance) or teachers just don't care enough.

Cherrysoup · 15/01/2023 11:01

Lurkerlot · 15/01/2023 10:29

Can I ask (genuine question) if you union strikes, and you suffer wages losses, lost time, and having to catch up etc, and eventually get the pay rise you want, would that mean members of the NASUWT, will also get the benefits of the pay rise you fought for?

Show quote history

Yes. This is for teaching as a whole, regardless of union. I found the NASUWT to have a much smaller membership and be much less willing to strike-possibly the schools I’ve been in. The NEU seems more willing to strike and has had representation in each school I’ve worked in. I’m in a new school, just got to Sixth form, no union representation so I put myself forward and was voted in. For me, it’s more about having someone to support teachers if there’s an issue.

Ariautec · 15/01/2023 11:05

noblegiraffe · 15/01/2023 10:41

Any headteachers who don't understand why they should be considering strike action should pay attention to this graph.

If schools cannot get headteachers (or other SLT) then that will impact education and the children in those schools.

It's not about whether you are being paid more than the lowest paid in society, it's whether the pay is a fair reflection of the job. And currently it is not enough to recruit.

Absolutely. In my LA and in local academy trusts, HT jobs are advertised two, three, four times. Unheard of locally.
Schools are having to ‘double up’ - finance and lack of people. In a neighbouring county, you too can be the HT of four schools, within a MAT (and with a starting wage of less than £60,000).