Meters - crying in bathroom - Update

[54isanopendoor]

I just wanted to say where I'm at as people were so kind to reply on NYE.

I called Scottish Power who suggest I set up a D/D for £250 plus pay back the debt 'at a rate I can afford'.

I explained that I CANNOT be using that much electric & want to dispute the debt. A neighbour came in & looked at meter & it was fitted in 1986, last inspected 1999. SP not interested. No date for a smart meter (its been 18m now).

I called CAB. They suggested I call SP & Step change.
No other advice & they are not offering appointments 'due to covid' still.

I've done that, have a budget, but there is no room to pay a £600 pcm month debt... I still think there is a meter issue. I turned everything off & it did appear to stop (but neighbours were out?). I have tried to measure each appliance but it's hard as all the wires are painted over. I cant' get an electrician yet (Scotland so only 'gone back' this week & getting a tradesperson never quick rurally)

SP will start to charge me late fees from Friday. I guess I say yes to the £250 plus say £50 pcm for debt but that doesn't solve the underlying problem. And, does that scupper my chance of disputing the debt if I start paying it??

Sorry to hear you're going through this. How many kWhs of gas and electric are you using each month? Are you giving them monthly readings or are they estimating your bills?

If you share how much you're using each month along with basic info about size of property, how often you use heating and any appliances like dryers and things, people will be able to give you a rough idea if it's accurate or not.

For context we live in a well-insulated 2 bed though are out all day, 3-4 days a week. We don't use the heating that much as we have an amazing heated throw (which is actually warmer than heating up a fairly large open plan living space) but I'd guess we put the heating on every 2 or 3 days for a few hours if it's chilly. Also have a dryer and a dishwasher which are used 2-3 times a week.

Monthly DD is £90 (doubled from this time last year) and so far no debt. Let everyone know the amount of units your meter says you're using and you might be able to get a better idea if it sounds right or not.

I'd agree to the direct debit for now and then investigate further.
Is your electric use still coming to 750kwh a month?

And no, there's no impact on your ability to dispute the debt if you make a payment arrangement.

You need the quote the information on here about meter faults
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/find-out-if-your-energy-meter-is-faulty/

They have an obligation and if they won’t do it you can go to the ombudsman.

older meters tend to slow down then stop rather than speed up.
You can switch everything off at the circuit board and then see if the meter stills increases

Have you gone through their formal complaints process? My understanding (from our own faulty meter than they show no interest in replacing) is that once you are in formal complaint territory, the debt is frozen until the complaint is resolved.

My DB and SIL had a good experience raising a complaint and then going through the ombudsman. It was also with regards to a faulty meter overcharging them.

It did take them multiple attempts to have a successful change of meter. Technicians kept arriving, looking at the power supply (very old), and deciding they weren’t qualified to work with it.

Keeping calm, making records, raising complaints properly, following through to the Ombudsman as soon as possible. That was the key to it.

Their charges were cancelled (all charges, not just the likely over-charges - they had credits put against future payments) and a new meter installed.

I also received some compensation from Scottish Power when I complained about a dodgy estimated bill. Again, it required escalation, but once escalated it was smooth.

Good luck

Put in an official complaint and if they have not responded within 8 weeks you then go to the Ombudsman, who then contacts the supplier. The Ombudsman decides what has to happen and can fine the company. Just be persistent.

Iirc they'll normally ask you to do a 7 day read test (so take a meter reading at the same time every day) before they'll start looking at a faulty meter - have you done this @54isanopendoor ?

Also is it ok to link back to your previous thread? I ask because it's under a different user name.

I'm being billed for 10,795 kwh of electric & 7,939 of gas per year.
divided by 365 that is 29.5 kwh of gas & 21.kwh of electric daily.
But I did 5 daily meter reads
They show I am using 1.2kwh of gas & 7.8kwh of electric daily
(1st 4 days were very low, last day both doubled, although we were out all day?)

But That's a massive difference to my billed annaul amounts ?
however, I am (mostly) reading my own meter rather than estimated bills

I spoke to Stepchange who told me NOT to agree a debt repayment plan if I am disputing the debt.
Am about to speak to them again now I've raised a formal complaint.

When you say "I'm being billed for 10,795 kwh of electric & 7,939 of gas per year" do you mean that that's your actual annual usage based on your readings? Or that that's their projected/estimated annual readings for the next twelve months?

@NewBootsAndRanty it's the actual annual useage on readings (tho one or two bills were estimated last year I think - I am trying to check this out)

Did you manage to check the actual consumption of your freezers/fridges?

Your annual usage has already dropped by 400kwh since your last thread, which isn't huge but its still a bit...

Bear in mind that about 80% of your annual gas consumption will go on heating over winter - the last twelve months will also cover winter 2021-22. If you only cut back on heating this year then you'll only just be starting to see savings in usage..

If youre being billed for 10,795 kwh of electric & 7,939 of gas per year, that's 29.5 kwh of electricity & 21.kwh of gas daily on average (I think you put it the other way round in your post) - the gas will be far lower over summer and higher over winter though.

Second this. It's the only way you'll get your energy company to do anything. Use Resolver as it makes it really easy to go through all the steps and you can add all your evidence to your case (it's free to use btw). I had a problem with British Gas who were completely dismissive and wouldn't help me at all until I contacted the Ombudsman. I got a phone call from BG the next day and they resolved it immediately.

That is an insane about of electric. I am 17kwh per day for December. That's on an all electric system (no gas here) and the vast majority is at the cheap off peak rate as it's heating. Only about 5kwh daily for the peak rate.

If you don't have an immersion heater and are not growing cannabis it cannot be right.

I would take it every hour if you can and keep a daily log as much as possible. It will help pinpoint if there's a big spike or just consistent high use according to the meter.

Has the useage changed recently or has it always been high?

I remember your previous thread. You've got two consumer units (the fuse box things with all the breakers/switches on them) haven't you? Assuming they're all labelled up is there any clue there? I'm thinking of something labelled 'water', 'immersion' or 'heater'.

Have you any loft spaces or sheds you've never been in that could have a wall heater or water cylinder in that's been left switched on?

From what you said about your usage you should be looking at 5-8 kWh per day electricity, rather than the 26 or so that you're using. I can't imagine that can be explained by a rogue fridge-freezer.

I think you said you had teenage boys (if I've remembered right). Have they got loads of computer equipment and and consoles running 24/7?

Hi @pigsinoodies yes that was me.
~the boxes aren't labelled & the old meter wires are all painted over
I tried eg turning off all but the kettle, then seeing how quickly the meter spun trying to work out cost per 24 hours if on constant but it was really hard to see plus I think my maths must be wrong as I was calculating £180 for leaving the lights on? the last 5 days seems really high. in that time we have had 3 showers (mains gas combi heated), 2 baths, 1x washing machine for 50mins, no electric cooker (a bit of microwave, mostly gas hob), & a bit of electric blanket / cups of tea. Out for 1 of those days. Not much extra heating but I've kept it so the pipes don't freeze. One Ds does have computer equipment yes but he has it on a timer so its' only on a few hours (7-11pm?)

£180 to leave the lights on for 24h definitely sounds wrong?

If you're paying eg 35p/kwh, that'd be using 22kw an hour.

Your average LED bulb will use at most 17 watts /0.017 kwh an hour.... it'd be more like 400w/0.4kwh, and about 14p over 24h.

Have you considered your neighbours are stealing your electricity?

Phone them back after your neighbours have returned.

@54isanopendoor I've gone back to look at the previous thread and it looks to me as if your second consumer unit definitely has the the circuits labelled and the main one probably does. The labels are written on by hand underneath the individual switches.

It also occured to me to check that you're reading your meter correctly. It's just the white numbers on a black background you want - nothing with any red on it (apologies for dumbing that down).

@pigsinoodies
Oh ok - I will look again in daylight tomorrow (my mobility gets worse as the day goes on). Thank you x

Name change fail ! (I seem to have 1 name if using my laptop & 1 using my phone? - something else to sort out!)

I think your GAS use is really quite low if you're using it for all your showers and baths as well a bit of heating. It's lower than mine and I live on my own and have an electric shower.

Because I'm so suspicious that you're heating something you don't know about with electricity I'd be tempted to turn the combi boiler off and check every hot tap and shower to make sure they run cold.

You do seem to be using an extra 15+ kWh per day all year though - and I think you'd struggle to do that even if all your hot water use was on the electric.

Hi again @pigsinoodies

I'm scared to turn off my boiler as it might not turn on again (limping on after a prob in Nov & plumber says its old & needs replacing)
I have a neighbour coming today to help me turn off the individual switches tho.

I've spoken again to Scottish Power. I've raised a complaint as they say that I cannot have a smart meter as my current one is more than 6ft off the ground so it would not be safe for their fitters to attend (& if they decide unsafe upon arrival there is a £65 'abort' change applied to my account. (I've explained my current one is circa 1986 & I am disabled...)
I can be put onto a direct debit for £312/month so I would be paying cheaper prices / kwh & standing charges (about 10% overall apparantly which is well worth having) but they wont do that until I make an arrangement to pay some of my debt. Stepchange debt charity advise me not to do that whilst i am disputing the debt (I will dispute the last 18m of debt which is the length of time I have been responsible for the bills).

When my elderly boiler broke in Nov, I contacted 3 diff Co's who offer help for those on certain benefits. All 3 eventually came out by last week & all suggested different improvements & different contribution amounts. I chose the best of the 3 who will install roof insulation, replace my boiler & put internal wall insulation in for free !!! Only... unbeknownst to me, 1 of the other Co did an EPC on my house (no permission given, no copies supplied). the level is E50. this means, apparantly, that the other 2 Co's cannot offer any help as house must be F rated. I am trying to challenge the EPC (the person who did it took half the time of the others who both said they'd rate it an F as its stone walls & slate roof with NO insulation at all). But this is a process in itself. I'm so tired.
I did wonder if my MP might help but he's a Tory so probably not...

sorry to be negative. I appreciate your help. I'll update as I konw more.