How to punish one child without affecting the other?

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 2023-01-10T22:34:38+00:00

Ds 12 since starting secondary school has become very mouthy and rude, hitting and fighting with his brother more and more. Tonight i had to separate them after they had fight, when ds turned around hit me in the face and was squaring up hitting out as if he wanted to fight me. Now I know he needs punishment and will be reming all of his tech, however he shares a room with his brother who has pretty much all the same tech. So how do I punish ds2 without also taking away and effectively punishing ds1? I honestly feel like crying, he doesn’t sleep and I think this is half his problem he is exhausted and so am I.

Tamarindtree · 10/01/2023 22:37

Is it just you and your two sons?

Are you in a two bedroom property?

UWhatNow · 10/01/2023 22:42

Have you asked him why he is so angry?

Secondary schools are so toxic. I’m not excusing his behaviour but my dd was aloof and unreachable - I thought she was just being a stroppy truculent madam and it was only years later she told me she was being bullied so badly she feared for her life. She loved us and didn’t want us to worry. It makes my heart break all the times I told her off for her (quote) ‘disgusting attitude and lack of respect to her family.’ She sucked all that up and never said a word.

Behaviour is communication.

As for punishment - I would sit down when he’s calm and talk about it. What does he see as an appropriate punishment for hitting his brother and mother? What does he think is reasonable? What can he do to make amends? What does he think should happen going forward?

Punish, but also listen carefully to what he’s trying to tell you.

Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 22:42

Yes just us in a two bed.

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GrazingSheep · 10/01/2023 22:44

What age is your younger child?
Could he use your bedroom for his gaming?

titchy · 10/01/2023 22:47

Could you bear to swap beds with the other ds for a day or two or however long? Sharing a room with your mum has to be a far worse punishment than no tech!

Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 22:49

They’re twins so the same age, unfortunately he can’t use anything in my room as there isn’t any space ATM.

It is very out of character for him, so have left him for tonight and will speak to him about it tomorrow.

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Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 22:50

titchy · 10/01/2023 22:47

Could you bear to swap beds with the other ds for a day or two or however long? Sharing a room with your mum has to be a far worse punishment than no tech!

He would happily sleep in my bed 😩

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Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 22:52

Having no tech is his worst nightmare, we also have a day out planned at the weekend that I really can’t afford to lose out on which he has been looking forward to, so I’m in two minds on wether or not to take him now.

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titchy · 10/01/2023 22:53

I meant the unpunished one sleeps in your bed and you sleep with the naughty one!

Housefullofcatsandkids · 10/01/2023 22:54

One way around it would be to only allow tech til a certain time and keep him year old downstairs til that time or bring the tech into the living room for your other son to use while he is in his room. I suppose however works best for you depending on how long you're removing it for.
I think it would be best to get an idea of why this is happening though, have a good heart to heart with him if you can. My DS2 isn't violent but I've had a lot of issues with him around attendance at school and it's hard to find what approach works for them. Removing tech doesn't work for him because he uses it to regulate his emotions (he has SEN) so quite often giving him space and time to process things/calm approaches work better. If they share a room it could be that that's the issue and he feels like he doesn't have any personal space, it's a difficult age.
With regards to the not sleeping have you spoken to your GP? My son was given medication to help him to settle down of an evening. Not like sleeping tablets, they don't work if you're still active and watching stuff but it helps with the natural process of getting ready for sleep. Also things like not having screens on for an hour before bed and certain shades of lighting can help xx

PollyEsther · 10/01/2023 22:55

This will probably be flamed, but if it’s that out of character and a -seeming- one off…. I wouldn’t punish him.

As PPs have said, secondary schools are horrendous places. Particularly in y7-9. I would be really concerned that he’s deeply struggling and want to get to the bottom of that and fix it. He sounds like he’s crying out for help.

Punishment can have it’s place, but equally it can lead to negative behaviour cycles too, and a reluctance to communicate troubles to parents when it’s needed most.

Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 23:06

Housefullofcatsandkids · 10/01/2023 22:54

One way around it would be to only allow tech til a certain time and keep him year old downstairs til that time or bring the tech into the living room for your other son to use while he is in his room. I suppose however works best for you depending on how long you're removing it for.
I think it would be best to get an idea of why this is happening though, have a good heart to heart with him if you can. My DS2 isn't violent but I've had a lot of issues with him around attendance at school and it's hard to find what approach works for them. Removing tech doesn't work for him because he uses it to regulate his emotions (he has SEN) so quite often giving him space and time to process things/calm approaches work better. If they share a room it could be that that's the issue and he feels like he doesn't have any personal space, it's a difficult age.
With regards to the not sleeping have you spoken to your GP? My son was given medication to help him to settle down of an evening. Not like sleeping tablets, they don't work if you're still active and watching stuff but it helps with the natural process of getting ready for sleep. Also things like not having screens on for an hour before bed and certain shades of lighting can help xx

They are only allowed to game until a certain time and it all gets turned off, but what you said about your ds using tech to regulate his emotions sounds very similar to my ds, he has actually said that it does help him sleep and I have been wondering if there are any issues like sen.
I’ve tried to contact my Gp but cannot get an appointment for love nor money, however I’ve got parents evening coming up so will discuss this with his teacher after I’ve seen if he is struggling with school.

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Tamarindtree · 10/01/2023 23:06

Don’t cancel the day out.

You need to sit down with him tomorrow and let him know that violence is not acceptable. Ask him why he feels he reacted that way.

It must be difficult if they share a room, I don’t have an answer for that, sadly.

Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 23:10

PollyEsther · 10/01/2023 22:55

This will probably be flamed, but if it’s that out of character and a -seeming- one off…. I wouldn’t punish him.

As PPs have said, secondary schools are horrendous places. Particularly in y7-9. I would be really concerned that he’s deeply struggling and want to get to the bottom of that and fix it. He sounds like he’s crying out for help.

Punishment can have it’s place, but equally it can lead to negative behaviour cycles too, and a reluctance to communicate troubles to parents when it’s needed most.

It’s very out of character for him, especially the lashing out and mouthing off that is definitely more ds1’s MO without the hitting that is.

Ds2 is usually very quiet and when ds1 kicks off he just pays no attention to him.
I don’t think he is being bullied as I do ask and he seems very popular, but will try and get to the bottom of it.

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EyesOnThePies · 10/01/2023 23:13

I agree with PolyEsther.

12 is such a difficult age for them. Obviously it isn’t acceptable to hit you. But at 12 he knows this and I think you will get a better result in talking to him about his behaviour than meting out punishment. Why does he do it? How does he feel having hit his Mum? Does he find it hard to control his emotions? Etc etc, all areas of discussion.

Miala · 10/01/2023 23:31

Separating them physically in the house could work if they cooperate, as @Housefullofcatsandkids says. Maybe keeping him downstairs with you while you cook or whatever would give you some chances to talk.

Losing the tech seems enough of a punishment to me. The day out would be good for all of you, and maybe another way to keep lines of communication open.

Original poster

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 23:53

Miala · 10/01/2023 23:31

Separating them physically in the house could work if they cooperate, as @Housefullofcatsandkids says. Maybe keeping him downstairs with you while you cook or whatever would give you some chances to talk.

Losing the tech seems enough of a punishment to me. The day out would be good for all of you, and maybe another way to keep lines of communication open.

I can keep them separate, that isn’t the problem I just thought maybe he would like to be In his room so it’s difficult to police.

The day out is specifically for him and will just be the two of us, which is why I considered not going but I’m not going to do that it will give us a chance to spend some time alone and for me to dig deeper.

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SweetSakura · 10/01/2023 23:55

If it's out of character then I would focus on why and not punish. Go for a walk and try and find out what's going on.

I think consequences are more important . I don't like punishing.
So consequence of lashing out should be to talk about what's going on and apologise for behaviour.

Housefullofcatsandkids · 11/01/2023 00:30

Tryingtocoverthegrey · 10/01/2023 23:06

They are only allowed to game until a certain time and it all gets turned off, but what you said about your ds using tech to regulate his emotions sounds very similar to my ds, he has actually said that it does help him sleep and I have been wondering if there are any issues like sen.
I’ve tried to contact my Gp but cannot get an appointment for love nor money, however I’ve got parents evening coming up so will discuss this with his teacher after I’ve seen if he is struggling with school.

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Yeah the no sleeping thing is part of my son's SEN as well. He was diagnosed when he was 9 but it's definitely become more noticeable as he's gotten older (he's 14 now). Yeah I'd definitely discuss with school if you can, even if it just means they're keeping an eye on him and looking for anything that could be the cause.