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Original poster

UK benefits system - what would you change?

410 replies

Galactico · 06/01/2023 21:36

Just a bit of curiosity, really.

Many people agree that the benefits system isn’t fit for purpose now. Whether that be because they feel it’s too easy to get them and so there’s a lack of incentive to work for some people, or because people are subject to degrading assessments and the constant threat of being sanctioned/removed.

Any opinions?

OP posts:
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 06/01/2023 23:15

UBI would be great.

Carer’s allowance to a proper amount. Also extend the run on if the person you caring for dies to three or six months. Four weeks gives people no time to deal with loss, funeral and then getting into searching for work.

I’d allow full transfer of tax allowance between couples if one is caring - either for child or another relative.

I’d also reinstate widowed parents allowance to last until the child was 18. 18 months hardly gives people time to find their feet, let alone change hours etc to make up the loss of a salary.

Disability reform. If someone has 3 consultants, a GP and specialist nurse who know them well giving reports of their condition and limitations they don’t then need assessed by a Capita physio or the likes. That’s just a waste of time and effort on everyone’s part.
Far more “light touch” reviews on people with long term conditions that are never going to get better.

HamBone · 06/01/2023 23:15

I like the idea of a universal basic income, but I have no idea how much tax revenue would need to be generated in order to provide it.
£1,500 a month=£18K a year for every adult.

Using current tax rates, someone would need to earn about £75K to generate £18K of income tax revenue, excluding NI payments. (average tax rate of 31.1%).

So, tax rates would probably have to massively increase similar to Belgium, for example, where a salary of €25,00.00 is subject to a 40% tax rate.

I don't know how I'd feel about being given £18K, earning say £30K, and paying that much tax. I suppose we'd get used to it.

anna77uk · 06/01/2023 23:17

All the bounce back loans and grants given out since covid that has caused all the price increases and inflation and everyone on here screaming for ubi 😡

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Benefits
OverTheRubicon · 06/01/2023 23:17

Stop the waiting periods and hourly thresholds that make it risky for current claimants to start a new job or increase hours.

Increase childcare support, to benefit keep women in the workforce, where they will end up paying more tax, saving more for pensions, providing more for their children (also future taxpayers) and having more financial freedom to flee relationships that are dangerous for themselves and children.

Not benefits, but increase penalties for parents not paying child support.

Citycentre3 · 06/01/2023 23:17

Someo · 06/01/2023 23:09

You are aware there's thousands of people WORKING FULL TIME and can still be entitled to a UC top up?

Show quote history

Yes I am aware, but I am also aware that many do the minimum 16 hours a week required and still use the childcare handouts to not care for their own children on their days off. I have heard many women discuss this, which I frankly find abhorrent.

maeveiscurious · 06/01/2023 23:20

Universal income irrespective of health or children to save money on the benefit system

25 year plan with cross party agreement on social care, environment and infrastructure including energy

pinneddownbytabbies · 06/01/2023 23:21

YouCantBeSadHoldingACupcake · 06/01/2023 22:13

Carers allowance. Family caring for disabled and elderly relatives saves the government a fortune, and they deserve more than the crappy 60 odd pound a week for full time job hours.

This. Carers allowance is a pittance and an insult.

OverTheRubicon · 06/01/2023 23:22

@YetMoreNewBeginnings how would it be fair to make widowed parents benefit extend until a child is 18, when over 1/4 of children of separated parents have no contact with their fathers, but wouldn't get anything extra? Lone parent support and CMS reform is needed, but makes little sense to call out widowed parents in particular - especially when many will often be better off than the lone parents, given life insurance and the reduced likelihood of coming from a chaotic background.

Lollipop999 · 06/01/2023 23:22

OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside · 06/01/2023 22:23

Controversial
But I'd make it worth working for people
Too many people are too comfortable on benefits and not motivated to work (I'm taking about lazy perfectly ok to work people not poorly or disabled)

I know people on benefits better off than my and DP working and that isn't right

And don't even get me started on these cost of living payments what about people who work and contribute and don't earn a huge amount but too much to claim any help with huge bills???

Surely this is sensible and not controversial?

They need to also take into account all of the free things and extra payments that many people who do not work qualify for and make sure that those who do work earn enough to cover this and more.

onyttig · 06/01/2023 23:22

HamBone · 06/01/2023 23:15

I like the idea of a universal basic income, but I have no idea how much tax revenue would need to be generated in order to provide it.
£1,500 a month=£18K a year for every adult.

Using current tax rates, someone would need to earn about £75K to generate £18K of income tax revenue, excluding NI payments. (average tax rate of 31.1%).

So, tax rates would probably have to massively increase similar to Belgium, for example, where a salary of €25,00.00 is subject to a 40% tax rate.

I don't know how I'd feel about being given £18K, earning say £30K, and paying that much tax. I suppose we'd get used to it.

Finland set UBI at €580 a month. Way less than £18k a year.

And everything costs a fortune in Finland.

Gwenhwyfar · 06/01/2023 23:26

I'm more familiar with old-style JSA than UC, but I would get rid of the rule that people with savings can either not get JSA or get less. It's a disincentive to working and saving. Also the unfairness that you could own as many expensive things as you want without having to declare them, but you can't have money in the bank.

Gwenhwyfar · 06/01/2023 23:30

"why do they get extra money towards child care if they are not even working????"

I suspect that the sad truth here is that the children of poor parents do better in childcare than at home. The opposite is true of better off parents according to the research.

Letitrainletitrainletitrain · 06/01/2023 23:30

HamBone · 06/01/2023 23:15

I like the idea of a universal basic income, but I have no idea how much tax revenue would need to be generated in order to provide it.
£1,500 a month=£18K a year for every adult.

Using current tax rates, someone would need to earn about £75K to generate £18K of income tax revenue, excluding NI payments. (average tax rate of 31.1%).

So, tax rates would probably have to massively increase similar to Belgium, for example, where a salary of €25,00.00 is subject to a 40% tax rate.

I don't know how I'd feel about being given £18K, earning say £30K, and paying that much tax. I suppose we'd get used to it.

One of the ideas is that increased automation has replaced jobs. Which means instead of society benefiting businesses benefit with increased profit and decreased costs

So if globally companies were taxed a higher amount and that amount was passed to society that would address the imbalance

this is only one of the ideas suggested there are many other ideas that could work but this is the one supported by people in tech such as Elon Musk and Bill Gates

kitsuneghost · 06/01/2023 23:30

People talking of UBI. would this be instead of benefits? and do you know how much we could get a month. Tried googling but could only find a theoretical plan for USA which suggested £800 a month. So obviously this would make people on benefits worse off if it is a replacement. Or am I missing something ?

IneedanewTV · 06/01/2023 23:30

MrsR87 · 06/01/2023 23:10

Does childcare count as benefits? If so, it’s needs a dramatic rethink.

When I return to work in Sept, I’ll have two under the age of 3 in full time childcare at a cost of about £2500 per month. As a middle earner, my 2.5 year old won’t be eligible for any funding until the following Jan after his 3rd birthday. I’m on the top of the teaching payscale with a tlr payment of just over £7500 for being head of department. So thanks to student loan payments I will take home anywhere between minus £50 and plus £150 per month for working around 55 hours a week in a job that I have come to resent since becoming a parent. What is the point. Where is the incentive to work? Why should it cost my husband money on one of the longer months (so we run out of the 20% help from the government) to go to a job that is pretty much running me into an early grave. Ridiculous! And that’s on a decent salary!

Childcare costs are shared between you and your husband. It’s not just your responsibility. Therefore this means it is worthwhile for you to return to work and you are also earning a teachers pension. Your employers (the state) are paying around 13% into a pension for you.

Crispynoodle · 06/01/2023 23:32

Whatever else happens I would make it law that fathers had to contribute half their time and cash to their children even if they leave

totallyhadenoughofthisbs · 06/01/2023 23:32

People being allowed to work just 16 hours and get topped up. Thus turning down full time hours at tax payers expense.

I have no issue with benefits topping up those who work full time.

onyttig · 06/01/2023 23:32

IneedanewTV · 06/01/2023 23:30

Childcare costs are shared between you and your husband. It’s not just your responsibility. Therefore this means it is worthwhile for you to return to work and you are also earning a teachers pension. Your employers (the state) are paying around 13% into a pension for you.

Show quote history

What about women who don’t have husbands or partners to share the financial burden of childcare?

HamBone · 06/01/2023 23:32

onyttig · 06/01/2023 23:22

Finland set UBI at €580 a month. Way less than £18k a year.

And everything costs a fortune in Finland.

Show quote history

@onyttig

I was using the amount someone mentioned upthread, I agree it's not realistic, we'd be so heavily taxed. £500/month-ish might be doable, but you couldn't live on it - so a lumbering benefits system would still exist!

SpottyBalloons · 06/01/2023 23:33

Kpo58 · 06/01/2023 22:19

I would have the benefits for under 25s the same as over 25s as it's discriminatory for younger adults. Why should a 20 year old who has 2 kids and working get less than a single 28 year old still living at their parents house?

I would also taper benefits more as it can never be fair that someone earned £10 more this week and loose free dentistry, free school meals and other benefits which cost far more than their increase in salary.

I don't disagree that the standard allowance should be the same for an adult regardless of their age, but a single and able 28 year old without housing costs wouldn't have a higher entitlement than a 20 year old with 2 children. It's possible that the 20 year old's income would eventually erode their UC entitlement, but they'd have to be earning a substantial amount before that happened.

Lollipop999 · 06/01/2023 23:38

MrsR87 · 06/01/2023 23:10

Does childcare count as benefits? If so, it’s needs a dramatic rethink.

When I return to work in Sept, I’ll have two under the age of 3 in full time childcare at a cost of about £2500 per month. As a middle earner, my 2.5 year old won’t be eligible for any funding until the following Jan after his 3rd birthday. I’m on the top of the teaching payscale with a tlr payment of just over £7500 for being head of department. So thanks to student loan payments I will take home anywhere between minus £50 and plus £150 per month for working around 55 hours a week in a job that I have come to resent since becoming a parent. What is the point. Where is the incentive to work? Why should it cost my husband money on one of the longer months (so we run out of the 20% help from the government) to go to a job that is pretty much running me into an early grave. Ridiculous! And that’s on a decent salary!

Did you not research this when you had 2 close together? We were in a similar position and had to pay an extortionate amount for a year or so with 2 x under 3, but did the sums beforehand and saved to make it a bit easier. We basically lived very frugally for that year and I worked to keep my job open really.

jackstini · 06/01/2023 23:38

The main thing I would do is connect all the systems for the NHS, DWP, Police, Courts & HMRC etc. to make fraud much harder and proof of need much more easily visible

Not allow them to remove lifetime DLA awards and refuse recipients any PIP

Put tighter controls on landlords but keep the tax breaks - or we will not have the volume of private rentals we need (or force the government to buy them all out - but there's no money for that!)

Make more people in prison work to pay for their keep

People in prison who are not inside for dangerous crimes to be released dependent on working and paying tax or volunteering. Better to be using hackers' brains to improve things than paying for them to be locked up

Too late at night for harder thinking but sure there are more!

totallyhadenoughofthisbs · 06/01/2023 23:39

The suggestions if UBI at £1500 sound great as that's more than I earn full time working so I'd just quit work. Confused

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 06/01/2023 23:43

OverTheRubicon · 06/01/2023 23:22

@YetMoreNewBeginnings how would it be fair to make widowed parents benefit extend until a child is 18, when over 1/4 of children of separated parents have no contact with their fathers, but wouldn't get anything extra? Lone parent support and CMS reform is needed, but makes little sense to call out widowed parents in particular - especially when many will often be better off than the lone parents, given life insurance and the reduced likelihood of coming from a chaotic background.

The widowed parents allowance came to mind because of the way it was slashed (under the guise of reform to benefit younger widows and widowers without children) relatively recently.

I can’t get into CMS reform. I briefly worked there. If I get started on what needs done and what I’d do I’d take over the thread as it absolutely fucking enrages me how shit they are.

caringcarer · 06/01/2023 23:44

I would give everyone a tax free allowance of £20,000. Then tax everyone 25p in pound everything above. I'd only pay benefits to disabled, and pensioners, and those who are actively seeking work and can prove job applications.