Labour - 100% renewable energy by 2030

[Nimbostratus100]

This is the first spark of interest I've had in labour since they got confused about the definition of "woman"

This plan is 30 years late, but better late than never.

I hope they mean renewable gas as well as renewable electricity, because it is going to take beyond 2030 for all homes to have alternatives to gas for heating

Lets just hope they remember what the word "woman" means as well- they might be worth serious consideration

Not going to happen. The infrastructure isn't there

How many people can afford to change from gas boilers to ground / air source pumps?

I've listed the things we would have to pay for to do this with our bog standard turn of the 20th century terrace.
Garden / yard too small to install ground source pump for 3 bedroom house.
Installing an air source heat pump - upwards of £8,000
Replacing all radiators with larger ones
This is no good without insulating the entire house so:
Internal wall insulation, at least £8,000
Removing or insulating chimney breasts - ??
Replacing suspended wooden floors with concrete and insulating them - ??
Installing super insulation to roof or attic floor - ??
Replacing radiators - ??
Reinstating or replacing plumbing - ??
Reinstating or replacing any kitchen/bathroom fitments moved for installation of heating and hot water system - ??
Reinstating features - ??
Redecorating - ??
Cost of moving and storing furniture and belongings whilst insulation is installed - ??
Rental costs if house becomes impossible to live in - ??

I may have overlooked some things.

Since Keir Starmer has said a Labour government couldn't afford to pay for anything, grants are going to be thin on the ground. If there are any, and they're "targeted" at very low income households, we're unlikely to be eligible - just above working benefits threshold.

Or we could use renewable sources of gas?

Should be perfectly possible with the combination of wind ,solar and tidal energy. Storage is developing quickly. As is progress in using renewable energy to manufacture green hydrogen. The current hydrocarbon companies should be investing far more heavily in these emerging technologies than they are without government subsidy.

How much renewable gas from all sources could be produced in the UK in a year? Has anyone done a study?

I guess we would need to be developing a more reliable supply

I work for an energy company who are working towards net zero. There are massive and ambitious plans already in motion but there's not fucking way 2030 is realistic for the gas supply.

Most modern boilers are already hydrogen ready but to switch over you need to turn over entire districts on the network at the same time. No matter how this works out there are going to be a lot of people without the funds or access to grants to allow access to hydrogen for heating or to switch to air source via electricity.

I'd love to know how this will be funded so we don't have people freezing in their homes because there is literally no way to heat them or are Labour also going with a "fuck the working poor" mandate?

Oh please.

Theres absolutely no way it would be possible.

kier Starmer is our biggest supply of hot air.

I'm guessing they've decided that there is no chance of getting elected before 2030 then.

It will take longer than 7 years, even assuming they were in now, to totally switch over.

I presume they just mean power? Would be doable if they overturned the ban on onshore wind.

Yep. More ill thought out rubbish from Starmer. The man is a complete idiot.

Well that's a bold statement if ever I've heard one

Thank you for this. Please can you tell us more about your energy company and the plans for net zero?

not such a big message then, if its electricity only

By energy they mean electricity.

Also the pledge I heard was for 100% zero-carbon energy by 2030. Which is a lot easier than 100% renewable energy because zero-carbon includes nuclear.

In 2022 50% of our electricity was from zero carbon sources. In 2010 it was 20%. Wind, solar and battery tech is improving all the time. I think it's doable and definitely worthwhile.

@chersfrozenface you might be fine with a shorter list. We got a heat pump last Jan, to squeeze in before the end of the RHI. Our house is a bog standard 1930s one, with solid walls and suspended wooden floors. We intended to insulate walls and under floorboards soon afterwards, but because of laziness various reasons we haven't done it yet. To our great surprise, It's been fine. 🤷‍♀️

This on the ITV News website:

"The Labour leader announced plans to end dependence on fossil fuels, with all the country’s electricity generated by renewable and nuclear power by 2030."

So yes, just electricity.

but natural gas is a fossil fuel, so ending dependence on fossil fuels mean gas central heating and petrol cars too, surely?

Well, yes.

I can't currently find a source for Starmer's actual words, so I don't know whether some media outlets have misinterpreted what he said.

Honestly I don't know the specific details because I take a very tunnel vision approach to my work and net zero isn't on my radar currently but I know there's a community in the North West that are being primed for hydrogen conversion (in progress) and we've paid for another community (Midlands I think) to be upgraded on air source heat pumps to assess the effectiveness and realistic outcomes for ordinary people...not just those who can afford to retrofit their entire home.

The company acknowledges that gas cannot be part of our future as much as it is our present so are looking at how we can be part of the future rather than being left behind. Electricity is much easier by comparison with Nuclear along with wind/hydro beingnpart of the mix. I should pay more attention really, but I do know that 2030 is an incredibly ambitious target given that it involves not just British owned companies like mine and foreign owned including some governments investing heavily in this area to make it possible. Given the absolute shit storm in the media whenever we post profits (which pays for these schemes) it's a fine line to try and walk.

All of the energy providers are going to need to work together to make this possible by 2050, let alone 2030! We are absolutely battered in the media any time someone announces profits but it's the only way this stuff will be paid for.

I'm not remarkably well paid and honestly struggle month to month but can see the necessity for companies that are involved in the upstream business (the folk who sell to your energy suppliers) to make profit. The government cannot afford to pay for this investment and it needs to happen.

There are other things going on too, a whole division of the company is dedicated to it, but honestly I'd have to dig through my emails to find it all and not all of the information is ready for public consumption.

But be reassured that whoever is in government, the energy providers...specifically the upstream sort have already got substantial plans and are working through them ready for a renewable only future.

That's not to say I have faith in either Labour or Conservatives...but more whatever they spout in the Houses of Parliament this is already being looked at.

Thank you for this, it is very interesting

Please could you suggest which energy companies it is appropriate to support, or apply to work for, for people who want to support development of renewables?

Thank you

Electrification is what we need. Gas is not renewable, and even when we have enough renewable electricity to make 'green' hydrogen, it will be much more efficient to use it as, err, electricity. Heat pumps work, electric vehicles work, the grid works and can be upgraded. So basically we need to, and can, electrify the fuck out of everything. Insulation and other efficiency measures would make the ongoing costs less, or we could focus our efforts on making renewable electricity as cheap as possible. Oh and onshore wind is already the cheapest source of generation globally and still reducing. So sorry to the Starmer haters for pissing on your chips, but I'm afraid he's right.

@Nimbostratus100 if you're job hunting, start with one if rhe Trade Associations eg Renewable UK. For a good energy supplier, try the Coop, Octopus or Good Energy.

I think it probably would be possible. We can put wind farms and solar up really quickly and we would have had more wind if the tories had given them the generating licences, another 5MW this winter!
There are plenty of inter connectors now with Europe so if it’s very windy we can export and other times import.
Plenty of houses with solar are self sufficient for 6 months of the year. Imagine if every house, industrial, agricultural building with the food in the correction direction had solar During the day we could export to France and at night import their nuclear generated electricity.

I moved to a house with a heat pump and not great insulation and now a year down the line I understand it and can control it and it works well. If more heat pumps are going to be fitted we need more service engineers and householders need training it how they work and how to make adjustments.

@GenuinelyDone I'm sorry, but isn't it turnover that will pay for the renewable energy schemes and trials etc?
Profit is the bit that's left at the end.
If the energy companies were investing more in renewable and net zero energy then they wouldn't be posting such large profits - that's why people are upset by it?

To pay for massive schemes like this, that may result in failure or governments shifting the goalposts substantially is a huge financial risk.

For the money to be available in financial year 2022-2023 there needed to be profit in 2021-2022 before approval could be obtained to go ahead and spend that money. Yes, what's being spent now is part of this year's turnover but only possible because of previous profits.

Not many companies plough cash-in straight into research and development. It's an incredibly risky strategy and the only notable success I've read about is Amazon.

This is a market where the government have already had to step in numerous times because the companies over reached spending money they thought they had rather than money they did have.

But people aren't interested in reality, they'd rather have a tantrum that a major UK employer who pays a full tax bill, invests heavily in future energy security and gives millions away in the form of debt relief (plus what they give to charity) makes profits that have a smaller percentage margin than most supermarket chains.