ADHD, normal/lazy teen behaviour or personality

[NeedSomeHelp12]

I posted some of this on someone else’s thread but didn’t get a response which is fair enough as it was theirs, so am trying my own.

Basically 14.5 yo DS is obviously struggling at the moment but he is not good at expressing it so he lash’s out verbally, saying not nice things in a horrible tone. DH thinks this is disrespectful so gets very cross which makes things worse but I can see his point. DS is constantly on his phone with headphones on and DH thinks this is the issue. If we could get him away from the phone it would help the other issues. I agree that it would help but the problem is, is the phone the problem or does he have other issues that’s causing him to be on the phone. DH thinks DS thinking he has ADHD is an excuse but I read today that not being able to self regulate phone use is a trait.
I thought years ago he showed signs but it only seemed to be at home, he seemed to be ok at school but have now heard about masking.
I could really use some help as DH seems to be of the attitude that DS is just being naughty and needs punishing.
Below are some other examples, sorry it’s long.

He fidgets a lot, always tapping or bouncing his feet around when sitting on the sofa. Makes random noises for no reason, more so when younger but still now sometimes but not at school. Is always messing his sister about.

The hygiene thing is a big thing and always has been. When he was younger it was a real struggle getting him to get ready for school. Now he will eventually get up for school, not wash, brush about 2 teeth despite us telling him to do them properly, swallows the toothpaste. Will only go in the shower when we continuously nag him, then he spends ages in there when we tell him to hurry up. But will get ready quickly when he is going out with friends so DH thinks he’s just being lazy.

He has been very obsessed with certain subjects.

He says he finds it hard to concentrate at school especially with things he doesn’t like but isn’t everyone like that if it’s boring?

We have trouble getting him to go to bed, mostly because he is gaming or chatting to friends. We didn’t push it in the holidays so he stopped up till the early hours, then was grumpy and not nice to us. We have also said he has no filter just says what he thinks without thinking about the consequences.

I don’t know if we should see a doctor or the school or just be stricter, although we would get a lot of fight back. It’s which came first the issues or the environmental factors.

Any help would be appreciated.

Phones are addictive.

The growing teenage brain will be more addictive susceptible.

Teenagers also need sleep to function well.

Can you try baby steps, eat together as often as you can with no phones at the table rule.

We have a 14 1/2 DS, phones and laptops are brought down about 9pm, we watch something together then they go to bed with books to sleep

Yes I have to remind "teeth", his room can be a tip. But there is no way on earth he would stay up until the early hours gaming. Holiday or no holiday.

You are the adults, you pay for his phone, the wi-fi, everything. You have power. You don't have to shout and scream you can calmly explain that you don't think at the moment he seems very content and that for a time you are going to try some new rules. Yes he will kick off, but he will whenever you do it. We took our kid's phones away when they refused to answer them when out under the quite reasonable reason that they are first and foremost a communication device for us to them and if they aren't going to use them as such they just won't have them. End of discussion. Phones removed for 24 hours and now they answer usually when we call or message.

Homework first. If he doesn't understand something then he needs to ask you.

Explain that fucking up school for what is on your mobile phone is nuts.

Explain to him how addictive they are designed to be and that website makers don't give a toss about him only how much time they can sell adverts to him for. Explain he is a mindless sheep, one of many. In a nice way of course.

I came on here tonight to post a very similar set of circumstances with our 15 nearly 16 year old - school report says talking in class shouting out answers. Lacks focus, struggles to stay on task. Hygiene also the same have to nag. I dont let him have his phone at night when he's at school but do let him in the holidays. However he ends up staying up late till like 2 in holidays on it. I always take his controller off him at night too incising holidays. He also really struggles to get to sleep at night and has done for years. Once asleep hes fine. I have spoken to my DH about it too and he just says oh he's just a teenager. Having read about ADHD he does tick a lot of boxes (doesnt fidget though but does struggle to focus) If hes is really interested in something he will read all about it. I have spoken to DS abut ADHD but he is very reluctant to see doctor for assessment as he says he will get labelled. He has exams soon and it is such a struggle to get him to study and stay on track, causing big arguments. I do worry that if he does have undiagnosed ADHD his life will be harder with a diagnosis. He's pretty clever but is definitely underachieving. Its so difficult to know what's the best thing to do - I cannot force him to go to the doctors. I do know that he gets very frustrated not being able to get to sleep - he says that his brain is just wizzing and says he struggles to switch off. I think I am going to speak to his school when he is back next week and mention to them that he struggles with sleep. He has struggled with getting to sleep since he had croup at 2 1/2 - Ive always been convinced that the steroids they gave him triggered something, I did take him to the doctors years ago but the doctor was not helpful at all.

It’s just really difficult to know isn’t it. With being on all these gadgets it’s no wonder their minds are racing but my DH has trouble sleeping because things are always racing through his mind. The more I read the more seems to fit but DH says you’ll always find things to fit if you want to.
I have 2 other DC and they aren’t like it but perhaps it’s just his personality. I only read recently about the hygiene thing, the inability to self regulate phone time and binge eating but they could just be personality as well.

Yes very difficult and difficult to approach with a teenager who just wants to fit in too. My DH also said that he worries that if he is diagnosed could it affect his chances of getting a job etc. I hope you manage to get some answers - I am not going to mention ADHD to school I am just going to mention that I am concerned about his inability to get to sleep within a decent timescale and his lack of focus and see what they come back with. I do feel sometimes DS will listen to other adults but parents are the last people teenagers want to listen to. Ill update on here once Ive spoken to get to school and let you know how we get on.

Thanks, I’d be interested to here how you get on. My DH says the same about jobs, I think that’s why he’s not keen to explore the possibility.

I have adhd op and honestly it's really hard to tell hence why I didn't get diagnosed till mid 30s after everything else was exhausted and ruled out. Could be hormones, depression and anxiety, post viral, sleep problems, I was told at one point likely dyslexia despite no reading or writing issues as I'd tested poorly for working memory. Could just be he's a teenager and he wants to do what he wants to do.

Unfortunately it's a diagnosis that's 'popular' at the moment which I suspect might stop people looking at more obvious causes and crossing them off the list.

I think you need to create the environment for him to do well and see where it goes from there. Maybe have a phone curfew where it gets locked away for the night or something? They are addictive for pretty much everybody and won't be helping regardless. Teenagers have much lower levels of impulse control than adults anyway.

The poster whose son has sleep problems should definitely speak to the doctor about that first as the symptoms of adhd often feel like being sleep deprived.

I have ADHD.

I would say that if you think your son has ADHD traits the least you must do is get him to a professional who knows more than you, your DH, your son etc.

The SNAP scoring form on this website is probably the most useful. No need to grade it but if you answer "mostly" most of the time etc it might be indicative enough to ask for a referral.

www.addrc.org/child-adolescent-screening-tests/

Request a meeting with school. A lot of what you write is typical for teenagers who are being raised in an environment they are not genetically designed for. Gaming, mobiles thrown into the mix alongside ever increasing stress at school and teenage hormones is a toxic mix. You might find referring to a stark questionnaire a bit easier than trying to see if his personality aligns with ADHD.

Absolute shite unless it's medically relevant which could be possible for careers like military etc? Otherwise it's a medical diagnosis and he can keep it a secret from who he chooses.

Drives me mad that people will stop seeking help for their children who have a treatable condition without properly thinking through the consequences.

That's definitely neurodivergent behaviour. Ask for a referral for ASD and ADHD. It will be a long wait unless you are in a position to go private.

Agree with looking at the scoring forms as a better way of assessing.

I will definitely loo at the spring forms and knowing that if my son is diagnosed and doesnt have to disclose to job is good to know - i did speak to my son last night and he has agreed to see doctor about sleep so thats good.

Didn't know about the scoring systems so will be looking at that today.

@NeedSomeHelp12

no one here can tell you whether your son has an NT condition - only a professional can do that, but there are strong indicators.

I agree with @FatEaredFuck . Not pusuing a diagnosis and finding ways to help your son because you are worried a diagnosis will affect his job prospects is rubbish.
Translate his current behaviours into the job market. He won’t get past as interview if he doesn’t sort the hygiene out.
I had someone come to work in my team several years ago, with undiagnosed ASD. It was a disaster, not because of the ASD, but because it was undiagnosed. Because my son has ASD, I spotted there was probably an issue and was able to pursue an OH assessment for him. We were then able to put reasonable adjustments in place for him, but he came very close to losing his job.
one if the most difficult things I have had to do as a manager was send someone home because they needed a shower and clean clothes. It was embarrassing for me and humiliating for him. Don’t let that happen to your son.

As I said it wasn’t me that thought it could effect his job prospects it was his Dad. He does have some old fashioned attitudes to some of these sorts of things. And we make sure he showers and have explained how he would be viewed if he doesn’t but yes it’s also how he would be if left to own devices when older.

We will look to speak to school or doctors. He does ok at school but we want him to be able to reach his full potential.

I think if it’s ADHD or not he still needs support. Being locked into a phone or gaming console 24/7 will not be helping him at all. If he has ADHD he needs support to move away from constant screen stimulation. If he doesn’t, he still needs that support.

Same with the nasty comments - whether he has ADHD or not there should be appropriate comments for rude and nasty behaviour. It’s unacceptable regardless of any ND.

And while I understand that an inability to regulate screen time can be indicative of ND, I think what people don’t take into account is that if you allow your child/teen (NT or ND) unlimited access to addictive screens and games consoles, they will then have difficulty regulating themselves. These games are literally designed to be addictive. Most kids would be suckered in if allowed to sit up on gaming consoles till early hours of the morning.

I would like to say that we have tried to talk to him about these issues and how it can affect him but the only way to get him off the screens is to ban him and physically remove it which obviously then creates conflict even though we’ve explained how it’s for his own good, he just doesn’t seem to want to help himself. When we tell the other DC it’s time to turn it off they might ask for another 5 minutes but then will turn it off, maybe it’s just that he’s a different personality.

A diagnosis and medication won't help with that though op as he will still prefer to be gaming over homework and if he's got an argumentative personality it won't change that either. He's already seen he can do what he wants if he argues. You may just have to ride out the conflict regardless unfortunately.

But explaining the effects isn’t going to necessarily help if he’s addicted to gaming and has formed habits of gaming into early hours of the morning etc. Even adults struggle - I know that if I get too fat it will have bad effects on me but it is still sometimes difficult for me to stay away from sugary unhealthy foods.

I think you’ll struggle generally if you are so desperate to avoid any conflict that you expect the child to self regulate.

Get rid of all the devices for 6mth and see how things improve. You have nothing to lose and soon he will be an adult

Hi there, just came across this post when looking concerning my own ds. He could be your sons twin! Down to the funny noises, fidgety behaviour. He says he can't switch his brain off. I wondered if you had gotten any answers yet? I'm going to take mine to GP for referral but no idea if we will get anywhere. I've assumed he can't have ADHD because he does really well in school....but maybe I'm wrong.