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Original poster

The school system isn't working, is it? Or is it?

33 replies

DilbertDoodle · 04/01/2023 14:07

So many threads on FB about children really struggling over the return to school. It's always hard after Christmas - for adults returning to work too - but I just wonder if there is something about how the school system just isn't working for so many of our children? It feels like only a proportion of children actually make it through the school years with their mental health fully intact and for so many children - and parents - it's a battle to keep them attending. I guess I'm thinking more about secondary than primary, but it just makes me sad to see so many families struggling.

Not sure what the answer is tho. I guess proper support for teachers and school funding might be a start...

OP posts:
Bluevelvetsofa · 04/01/2023 14:48

The pandemic and lockdowns started that. It was inevitable that everything that went on nearly three years ago would result in another pandemic of poor mental health.

But the school system started to disintegrate a long time before that. Recruitment and retention of staff is dire, finances are dire, resources are dire and at the point of collapse.

There’s an awful lot more, to do with expectations, parental support and all kinds of other things and it’s getting more and more difficult.

Labraradabrador · 04/01/2023 14:58

I think the British approach to education is dysfunctional. The single minded focus on exams puts extraordinary pressure on children, fosters a binary understanding of’success’ and leaves little room for exploration/ fostering joy in learning. There’s a misguided mentality that exams are an accurate reflection of educational achievement or potential. Covid made the stress more visible, but I think it was always there.

stbrandonsboat · 04/01/2023 15:42

I think bullying is worse now due to social media and children accessing adult material early in their lives. Quite a few don't seem to be actively parented now.

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General education
Kelloe · 04/01/2023 20:15

Bluevelvetsofa · 04/01/2023 14:48

The pandemic and lockdowns started that. It was inevitable that everything that went on nearly three years ago would result in another pandemic of poor mental health.

But the school system started to disintegrate a long time before that. Recruitment and retention of staff is dire, finances are dire, resources are dire and at the point of collapse.

There’s an awful lot more, to do with expectations, parental support and all kinds of other things and it’s getting more and more difficult.

Hahahaha. The pandemic and lockdown started it. What a joke. Did you not notice the rot setting in years before that? It is an archaic system and should have been revamped years and years ago. It is not fit for function but nothing will be done about it.

echt · 04/01/2023 20:59

Get rid of GCSEs, really not needed.

I've worked in the UK (25 years) Australia (16) and can vouch for students coming out the other end of a system without them are not worse off. Better in fact, as the study of English is compulsory to the end.

Also Aussies don't move into secondary until the equivalent of UK Year 8. Don't know if it makes any difference, though.

takeitonthegin · 04/01/2023 21:02

@Kelloe You are completely spot on!

PeekAtYou · 04/01/2023 21:08

The school system wasn't working long before the pandemic. I can see that as a parent to kids who sailed through their education without problems.
I think that services that should be running in conjunction with schools are so underfunded that schools have been expected to take over. Schools are not CAMHS, Social Services, the Police and adult health services and can not be.
If teachers are expected to be special Needs experts now, where is the training and resources like 1 to 1s?

PeekAtYou · 04/01/2023 21:10

echt · 04/01/2023 20:59

Get rid of GCSEs, really not needed.

I've worked in the UK (25 years) Australia (16) and can vouch for students coming out the other end of a system without them are not worse off. Better in fact, as the study of English is compulsory to the end.

Also Aussies don't move into secondary until the equivalent of UK Year 8. Don't know if it makes any difference, though.

Some areas of the Uk have a Middle School system where they start secondary later.

HoneyDragon · 04/01/2023 21:10

The system was failing before covid; I think blaming covid and parenting for the behaviour of kids in the aftermath of covid is unfair. They are readjusting again to entirely different ways of learning in buildings that have no money, too few staff , and inadequate facilities. Expecting children not to react to that in any way or teachers not to be fed up and despondent is naive.

Needmorelego · 04/01/2023 21:15

I can only speak for England not the rest of the UK...
Primary School SATS are ridiculous. Children age 7 thinking they have "failed". Parents thinking they need to get tutors for SATS.
The secondary school admission system is crazy with children not getting a place at their local school - feeling again they must have "failed" in some way to not get a place, being separated from their primary school friends, communities broken apart because the children are all at different schools all over the place.
The curriculum is far too academic. Not enough creative and vocational subjects.
GCSEs are far to many exams.
Schools are far to obsessed with uniforms over more important issues like bullying and anxiety.
Costs of uniform is a struggle for so many families which children are aware of which in turn can give the child anxiety because they are terrified they will get into trouble because their parent accidentally bought grey socks instead of black.
SEN provision in mainstream is terrible and not enough alternative schools exist.
The government doesn't seem to have a clue. Maths compulsory until 18? Crazy. We need much much more post 16 apprenticeships and vocational qualifications - not more ruddy maths.

watchfulwishes · 04/01/2023 21:22

I think the mental health crisis is about more than just school.

Schools get blamed for everything but poverty and destroyed public services have a huge impact.

Also social media pressure is grim, I don't understand why this toxic presence in childrens' lives is accepted by parents and society.

FawnFrenchieMum · 04/01/2023 21:22

Labraradabrador · 04/01/2023 14:58

I think the British approach to education is dysfunctional. The single minded focus on exams puts extraordinary pressure on children, fosters a binary understanding of’success’ and leaves little room for exploration/ fostering joy in learning. There’s a misguided mentality that exams are an accurate reflection of educational achievement or potential. Covid made the stress more visible, but I think it was always there.

This ^^

So much time in the English education system is spent learning to pass exams. No teaching to love learning, no time for finding their passions, no time to develop as individuals.

Rosamunde · 04/01/2023 21:25

I don’t think there is anything particularly odd about this. As you say it’s a completely normal feeling and it doesn’t do kids any favours to pathologise it.

MarshaBradyo · 04/01/2023 21:28

MH issues have jumped markedly in last few years since pandemic

A new figure was out the other day

Having said that I’m ok with the format and wouldn’t change much, other than not do what we did in pandemic

SpentDandelion · 04/01/2023 21:31

Something has gone very wrong, no fault of the teachers who work very hard, no fault of the young teenagers suffering MH issues, no fault of the parents desperately trying to find a solution.
The system just isn't working for so many.
I think we need to come up with other options and not expect one size fits all.

lollipoprainbow · 04/01/2023 21:32

Great thread. My poor dd isn't 'sailing through' school she is autistic and the provision for sen is woefully lacking. Our first morning back today was sheer and utter hell for both of us.

Schools are still too far Victorian, children are put into neat little boxes and must learn at the same pace as all the others despite some of them struggling. Subjects need to move with the times, have more fun subjects. play to each individuals strengths and weaknesses.

Don't get me started on the uniform. Dressing boys like mini bank managers is bloody ridiculous. Could we not move towards soft leggings and hoodies with the school brand on?

ArcticChinchilla · 04/01/2023 21:53

I'm sorry for your DD. I think it's children with SEN who are being failed most.

ButterflyBiscuit · 04/01/2023 21:57

I've often thought a system where you just need to "pass" the class would be great without the focus on grades and competition. You can't have everyone be above average.... we divide into winners and losers and are far too academically based.

Largethighsbadeyes · 04/01/2023 21:59

My child had mental health problems in primary, but so far in secondary they are loving it! So maybe it's not the system but individual schools.

That said I agree that the potential for bullying with social media and watsapp etc is vast and very worrying

jtaeapa · 04/01/2023 21:59

Bullying is rife.

There is no method by which you can discipline. My db stopped giving detentions because the kids wouldn't attend and when he phoned the parents, they told him to fuck off. He teaches a critical, core subject that all the kids needed to engage with.

Exaspa · 23/04/2023 09:45

It'll be interesting to see how government apologist Kussyarse, as she is not infrequently described in this household, spins government involvement and policy since 2010 on this one. I mean, who'd have thought the decisions made around then would lead to the effective collapse of so many institutions that once underpinned a decent society round about now.

Still, it's only poor people who are affected, mainly, so it's their own bloody fault for being born poor, innit. As long as the people in power can continue to get little Tarquin and Arabella into naice private schools and STEM or PPE courses at Oxbridge (or slum it in the rest of the Russell Group, after a year out on dodgy programmes learning about poor people in the developing world/global south) and then into naice safe jobs with mates' companies what do they care.

I don't have any answers but I cannot believe people (by which I mainly mean Tory voters) didn't see this coming 13 years ago. Then again my entire education was spent under the beyond callous regime of that witch Thatcher, I also can't believe how easily people forget. It's almost like there's something in the water....

JasicaRose · 22/08/2023 19:46

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Spendonsend · 22/08/2023 20:01

I think the system is good if you are aiming for university. I feel like the main focus, from a young age is a series of steps preparing you for academic study at a higher level.

I think the approx 3rd of students who dont get a 4 or above in both maths and English are very poorly served.

The state of further educatiion compared to higher education compounds this.

I also think schools cant solve all of societies issues. So issues around housing, poverty, social media, healthcare cant be solved by school

noctiscaelum · 22/08/2023 20:08

Get rid of GCSEs, really not needed.

I totally agree. They should have time to mature, explore, and find something they want to pursue at this age, like many other countries do.

tollerdool · 28/08/2023 13:26

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