‘Order of the British Empire’ - time to change?

[DuncanBiscuits]

Looking at the Honours list this morning, it occurred to me that it’s odd to still use ‘the British Empire’ in the name of the gongs, given the facts:

a) the Empire no longer exists.
b) it wasn’t exactly something to be proud of when it did.

I think if I ever did something worthy of an award (highly unlikely), being awarded one in the name of the Empire would put me right off accepting.

Anyone else surprised they haven’t updated the awards system to reflect a more modern outlook?

@DuncanBiscuits Another reason to add to your list: most of us didn’t learn about the British Empire at school! Few people understand what it actually means.

Empire such an important part of the history that explains where Britain’s wealth came from and how. We should know this history, or at least be encouraged to find out. Why be ignorant? Why not be aware?

The other honours are also a bit archaic
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11990088

Knights and Dames

The honour of knighthood comes from the days of medieval chivalry, as does the method used to confer the knighthood - the accolade, or the touch of a sword by the sovereign.

A knight is styled "Sir" and their wives "Lady".

Women receiving the honour are styled "Dame" but do not receive the accolade.
The honour is given for a pre-eminent contribution in any field of activity.
The rank of Knight Commander (KBE) or Dame Commander (DBE), Order of the British Empire, appears on the Diplomatic Service and Overseas list.

The Order of the Bath

The Order of the Bath is an order of chivalry and was founded in 1725 for service of the highest calibre. The order has a civil and military division and is awarded in the following ranks: Knight Grand Cross (GCB), Knight Commander (KCB) and Companion (CB).

The Order takes its name from the symbolic bathing which, in former times, was often part of the preparation of a candidate for knighthood.

Order of St Michael and St George

This Order was founded by King George III in 1818 and is awarded to British subjects who have rendered extraordinary and important services abroad or in the Commonwealth. Ranks in the Order are Knight or Dame Grand Cross (GCMG), Knight or Dame Commander (KCMG or DCMG) and Companion (CMG).

Order of the Companions Honour

This is awarded for service of conspicuous national importance and is limited to 65 people. Recipients are entitled to put the initials CH after their name.

Orders of the British Empire

King George V created these honours during World War One to reward services to the war effort by civilians at home and service personnel in support positions.
The ranks are Commander (CBE), Officer (OBE), and Member (MBE).

They are now awarded for prominent national or regional roles and to those making distinguished or notable contributions in their own specific areas of activity.

British Empire Medal

The medal was founded in 1917 and was awarded for "meritorious" actions by civilians or military personnel, although the recipients did not attend a royal investiture.

There's a video on YouTube of John Oliver discussing this, and how he turned one down because the BE of OBE is a big thing to put after your name. It's very funny and worth a watch.

I am sure they can come up with some new names to reflect modern Britain.

Looks like I missed some out

Royal Victorian Order

By 1896, prime ministers and governments had increased their influence over the distribution of awards and had gained almost total control of the system. Therefore, Queen Victoria instituted The Royal Victorian Order as a personal award for services performed on behalf of the Royal Family.
The ranks are Knight or Dame Grand Cross (GCVO), Knight or Dame Commander (KCVO or DCVO), Commander (CVO), Lieutenant (LVO) and Member (MVO).

Royal Victorian Medal

Associated with the Royal Victorian Order is the Royal Victorian Medal which has three grades: gold, silver and bronze. The circular medal is attached to the ribbon of the Order.

Royal Red Cross

Founded in 1883 by Queen Victoria, the award is confined to the nursing services. Those awarded the first class are designated "Members" (RRC): those awarded the Second Class are designated "Associates" (ARRC).

King's Police Medal

Awarded for distinguished service in the police force.

King's Fire Service Medal

Given to firefighters who have displayed conspicuous devotion to duty.

King's Ambulance Service Medal

Awarded for distinguished service in the ambulance service.

I don’t mind the really archaic ones. Knights, etc. I don’t really see them as a total embarrassment, just a nod to ye olden days.

But I can’t really see Imperialism as something to celebrate.

I like the suggestion of Order of British Excellence as an alternative.

There's an easy answer. Abolish the monarchy. Job done.

I don't see the harm. It's a form recognition for people who have succeeded in their walk of life or done charity work.

Yes it's absolutely fucking ridiculous that we still "honour" people by referring to the brutal subjugation of many millions world wide. Some principled people have taken a stand and most just say ta very much and carry on the appalling tradition. The monarchy know full well that his should change and have done nothing about it.

I don’t have a problem with honouring people, it’s the fact it’s done in the name of ‘Empire’.

Honours are fine.

What should they be called?

@cakeorwine Order of British Excellence?

I think the honours list is completely wrong.

I think the idea that a 'higher power' is bestowing an award on you is just preposterous.

The people who are being awarded in these ceremonies have often done some incredible things, I can't see the merit in receiving an award from someone who has been elevated to the highest power by virtue of birth.

Take a look at those who have rejected the honours, those are the people who know their worth.

Copying The Simpsons, just call it 'The King Charles Award for Outstanding Achievement In The Field Of Excellence'.

Who's celebrating it? We can't change the past, but can make the future better. Changing names just hides things and they become forgotten. We shouldn’t be forgetting things, we should be learning from them.

(I hate the honours list. It seems to honour the famous who have done very little other than be famous - at least no more than other, unsung, people. I roll my eyes at the names of people honoured every year.)

The people who are being awarded in these ceremonies have often done some incredible things, I can't see the merit in receiving an award from someone who has been elevated to the highest power by virtue of birth.

Well so long as the people receiving the awards can see the merit, that's all that matters surely?

I'm ambivalent about them otherwise

Maybe look at the list more closely...... yes there are some famous people honoured but they are overwhelmingly outnumbered by non famous people who are being honoured for their contributions to society, education, charity etc.

For reasons too outing to disclose, I know a great deal about the honours system. It’s extremely corrupt (as if you needed me to tell you that), and the new monarch is inextricably linked to its corruption. Anyone who you think should have a senior honour but doesn’t has almost certainly been sounded out beforehand but has refused it out of moral principle.

No, leave it.

Don't mess with history - people who do so usually have very specific agendas.

It's all part of who we are - good and bad.

Re famous people; they are not handing them out to z-list celebs like Katie Price or some social media influencer, etc, they are handing them actors, sportsmen, artists, etc, who have applied themselves at school or in their hobby.

Sounds very Yes Prime Minister ish

[talking about honours and the abbreviations of the Order of St Michael and St George:
CMG, KCMG and GCMG]
Bernard Woolley:
Of course in the service, CMG stands for Call Me God. And KCMG for Kindly Call Me God.
James Hacker:
What does GCMG stand for?
Bernard Woolley:
God Calls Me God.

You’re actually cutting too close to the bone so I’l bow out here, @cakeorwine .
OBEs and MBEs are handed out like confetti so if you can persuade someone to fill out the form on the gov website and write to your MP on your behalf, you’ll probably get one nay bother.

But you still need to have actually done something worthwhile.....