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NHS - My pot of goodwill is running low

57 replies

OutingIfYouKnowMe · 22/12/2022 22:44

I’m pretty sure none of my colleagues are on Mumsnet, but if you are able to identify me please be discreet.
I’m not going to say anything I shouldn’t, it’s just a whiny rant really.
If you really know where I work feel free to pop up to the office and hear me moan in person.

I work with a small team in an area not dissimilar to a specialist theatre, within a large department, it’s a Monday to Friday 9-5 service, but there is an unofficial out of hours on call system to provide cover for emergencies, which works entirely on our goodwill and commitment.

The way it works is on “availability”.
This is not an official on call rota, we are not contracted or paid to be on call although we are paid overtime if we are called in.
Someone gets called in on average about two times a month, sometimes, like buses there will be three in quick succession and then a quiet spell.
There is a list of us all - when a doctor needs someone to come in they call the first person on the list, and if the first person doesn’t pick up or is unavailable then the doctor will have to call the next person and so on, working their way down the list. When someone has been called in, they go to the bottom of the list, and the next person rises to the top and stays there until they are called in - sometimes a person is at the top of the list for weeks, and if someone else comes in because the first person was not available, then they go to the bottom and the first person remains at the top. As a colleague is wont to say, there has never been an occasion when no one was available so it works, in its way.

Sometimes if the doctors have had a struggle to get hold of someone then the topic of an official on call rota pops up. I don’t blame them, they find ringing around stressful and annoying, they just want one number they can ring and tell that one person to come in.
So it rumbles on from time to time without any conclusion, it is rearing its head again now.

The problem is numbers.

When I started in the department there were seven of us on the list so it would be quite a long time before having a spell in number one slot.
Then people left for various reasons and for about a year there were just four of us on the list which meant one felt the weight of responsibility to be available more, obviously annual leave and /or sickness reduced the available pool even more. Now there are five, with a sixth who should be trained up sufficiently to join the list soon.

I have worked an on call rota before in another job - from memory there were six of us and we did about one night a week and one weekend a month, and I never found it onerous.
We were all full time and unless someone was off sick and extra cover was needed it was not a problem.
We were never on call before days off or during days off.

The problem we currently have is some of my colleagues are part time.
Good on them, they often cheerfully come in in the middle of the night when they are on their days off.
But as soon as the matter of an official rota comes up they insist they must only be on call on a pro-rata basis, which is fair enough.
Except that means that those of us who are full time would have to do full time pro-rata PLUS the additional on calls that aren’t covered by those who don’t do a full share.
Then there is the matter that one team member (not the one being trained up) is not competent to cover on call.
Don’t get me started on that as I could fill a thread, but its best I say no more, believe me I have griped about it ever since the situation arose.

A pro-rata on call divided between 5 or six of us would see the full time members doing far more than one night a week and one weekend a month and I'm definitely not going to spend half my life being On call.

Meanwhile, back to our unofficial "availability". Guess who's top of the list as we head into Christmas...
I’m not overflowing with the spirit of Christmas good will at present. One colleague is going away, fair enough.
Another is working agency on the day, to earn top rate money.
So that leaves three of us on the list with me at the top, expected to be available to drop everything and head in to work.
Do I want to spend all of Christmas sipping water and wondering if I will have to abandon the cooking, leave everyone to get on with the meal and I'll warm mine up later?
No I bloody well don’t.

But I will feel guilty if I don’t pick up my phone and it falls on one or other of my other two colleagues.

I’m just so over it.

OP posts:
jellymaker · 22/12/2022 22:47

Well move jobs then

Catsonskis · 22/12/2022 23:03

Im a manager in the NHS and that’s utterly ridiculous. If no formal agreement you can’t go in and no one can make you be available unless in your contract.

as to the creation of an official on call Rota, they need to figure out how many people they need to make the rota viable. Say the magic number is 6, but there’s only 4 WTE -(3 FTE plus 2 0.5WTE) then there is 1.0 FTE GAP on the rota that you and your colleagues can volunteer to fill for “overtime whilst contracted to your official on call commitment. But you can’t be made to do it. Again, unless in your contract.

you need to take up with HR.

im 0.8 WTE and I do Silver command on call, I’m rostered for 0.8 of what everyone else does, and there’s 0.2 gap. All FTE staff get first dibs at “my” gap as you get paid additional to cover vacancies. We two have a ladder for unavailability but if I was top of the ladder at Xmas, I’d still go ahead with my plans as the person actually on call should do the duty.

all the best x

Flapjack637 · 22/12/2022 23:09

jellymaker · 22/12/2022 22:47

Well move jobs then

You sound nice. Full of the Christmas spirit eh? 🙄

Could you all get together to speak to management about how it’s not sustainable. I’m so sorry you’ve been put in this position over Christmas. If you are on call you should be paid accordingly. Thank you for everything you do 💐

AftersomeAdvice234 · 22/12/2022 23:17

Gosh op. I’m afraid I don’t have any helpful advice but this is utterly crap. Sorry

it is unfair to expect you to be on call over Christmas, I can’t imagine it’s relaxing at all when you are thinking will my phone ring. Despite being on call a lot, I think going forward the rota idea sounds best. This way you know you might get called and there’s no ifs or buts. Ideally you would add on another one or two full time people to make it less burdensome

can trained agency staff cover?

AftersomeAdvice234 · 22/12/2022 23:17

Also, is moving jobs an option for you?

Port1aCastis · 22/12/2022 23:38

I will go mad and will not be responsible for my actions if he carries on singing caravan of love badly in the bath, this is not negotiable and steps will be taken to shut the tuss up!

Port1aCastis · 22/12/2022 23:39

Sorry wrong thread !

Itisbetter · 22/12/2022 23:45

Change to the rota but insist there are enough people to cover it?

Katapolts · 22/12/2022 23:55

You're not contracted to be on-call.

You're called and given the option of volunteering for overtime.

If you don't want to do any overtime over Christmas, email your manager and make that clear now!

I'd say 'I am off on 25th December, please don't call me as I don't want to volunteer for any overtime until at least x date'.

Cheshiresun · 23/12/2022 00:23

Sounds an awful system - so while you're at the top of the list, which reading this, it might be a while - you could be called out any time so no going out/drinking/away from home etc etc for that whole time until you've been called and you're moved to the bottom of the list again?

A formal system might be better. At least you could plan more. Either that or I'd be looking to move. It can't be nice for those having the stress of calling whose at the top/the next person, either.

Years ago I was rostered in a job to be on call over Christmas. At the time it was months ahead but I ended up moving to another job before that happened.

TitsInAbsentia · 23/12/2022 00:25

Surely those who aren't full time still have a responsibility to on call, albeit not a the same rate as you?

And someone working bank which takes them out of the on call pool is wrong, they should then still keep their on call responsibility although couldn't be christmas day which is a shit.

Sounds like a more formal agreement is needed!

Willowswood · 23/12/2022 00:25

I'd just say oops I've got covid, to avoid being called in over Xmas, then in the new year I duty on an official on call rota.

Dogsitter1 · 23/12/2022 00:47

That’s crazy rota system- typical of NHS - abusing goodwill of staff.
As another poster said - are you meant not to drink in the evenings the entire time you’re on top of the list?
Ask your manager - what will happen if you’ve had a drink in Xmas day? Will it go to the next person on the list? it’s not like they can stop you from drinking if it’s not an official rota…

AliciaInWonderland · 23/12/2022 05:49

The person who has taken themselves off the rota to earn money in a different job is in the wrong. What if you all did

AliciaInWonderland · 23/12/2022 05:53

Posted too soon, what if you all had second jobs that took you off the list?! If a second job inhibits the first then as a manager I'd be looking at performance managing them out.
What happens if you're all ill? What are the contingency plans? Five people doesn't seem like that many. Three could easily be ill and two unavailable.
What are your ideas for making this fairer?

fallfallfall · 23/12/2022 05:58

Been there done that ridiculous phone list business. I understand your frustration. Long retired, I’m of no help.

PurBal · 23/12/2022 05:58

1 you need a rota
2 if you’re not actually on call, drink to your hearts content / ignore the phone.

AliciaInWonderland · 23/12/2022 06:01

Also, as you mentioned, I think it is utterly ridiculous that doctors are having to work through telephone trees begging people to come in. What an insane way of working! Surely they should be "doctoring"

Penguinsaregreat · 23/12/2022 06:10

We have an on call rota and it’s not great. No choice in the matter so it can end up with me being on call when I am officially on holiday. Then I have to swap with someone. I’m paid peanuts for it. It covers 365 days a year including all bank holidays so often means I can’t go away or even leave the house! Part time staff do as many on calls as full time it’s part of their contract. We don’t have enough staff otherwise and are struggling to fill vacancies as it is.
The only saving grace is that it is limited to 2 hours only but still I can’t go anywhere on those days and it isn’t worth the inconvenience. Not having a rota would not work as most staff, myself included, would not answer the phone!

Ylvamoon · 23/12/2022 06:15

Have a drink and don't answer the phone.

They only will put an official rota in place once they have to log an incident = nobody is available to come in.
It's time to act.

spare123 · 23/12/2022 06:16

Why on earth did you agree to this? You all need to get your unions on this, just being on the rota and being available should be a paid activity. To avoid accusations of unprofessionalism I would suggest that you now send a group email saying that you are not happy to continue with this and are giving six weeks notice that involvement in the rota needs to be paid.

butterfly990 · 23/12/2022 06:24

Why is nobody entitled to the £1.20/hour ( something like that amount) on call rate?

Our part time staff are expected to be on full time ratio for on call. We are a team of 20 and quite a few will volunteer to cover extra on calls. We are not a clinical team

I think a rota is fairer and the parts which can't be covered by the team are supported by bank staff. Christmas, New Year and Easter can be split in half. For example our rota will have someone covering Good Friday and Easter Saturday. Someone else will then cover Easter Sunday and Monday as part of their shift.

Namenic · 23/12/2022 06:25

You need a rota system. PT people should have PT on calls. Agency or recruit to cover the shortfall in on-calls. Then at least if one of you does extra on-calls you are paid fairly (as agency staff).

The govt will just ignore problems unfortunately - the only language they understand is vacancy and agency costs…. I’m sorry about your poor working conditions OP.

FangedFrisbee · 23/12/2022 06:30

That rota system is ridiculous. We do on call but it's real on call.
It's caused such an issue with staff morale it's now turning to rostered night shifts.

notimagain · 23/12/2022 07:05

@spare123

Why on earth did you agree to this? You all need to get your unions on this,

Agreed. I've seen a similar in a non healthcare, private sector context - we had a formal rostered on call system and then also a ring around and grab anybody system (which had teeth if you declined ) which was supposedly only for use in a real emergency if the formal on-call system couldn't cover any major shortfall in person power.

All got very nasty/unpleasant/disruptive to individuals when we ran into long term staff shortages and it was only resolved by Unions negotiating with management and ultimately a major contract rejig.

Good Luck.

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