Does an Erasmus visa still exist?

[Fordian]

... as my son was told he had one by a government registration office in Germany (he's on a semester in a German Uni), but they gave him no physical proof as 'it's on the system'. However, he's just been told by passport control at Stuttgart airport that he's illegal, by 11 days. He's awaiting the police to charge him right now.

He's been to-ing and fro-ing to this registration office since mid-Sept.

Do we need an immigration lawyer?

This has wrecked Christmas. He can't return to his uni to collect his things.

Oh gosh, how absolutely horrendous. My friend's daughter is working as an assistante in France this year, but she applied for a visa before she went.

Presumably he has some student ID, can the police contact the uni? Does he have an Ausweis (identity card)? I had one both times I lived in Germany, if he could show that it would prove he was allowed to be there.

Wait, how long has he been there? Surely he has up to six months without a visa?

Is he a U.K. student in Germany? We left the Erasmus scheme in 21 S part of Brexit. Have made our own scheme called Turing.

What visa did he organise when he went?

It's 90 days in the last 180. So if he's been there less than 90 days (IE three months) he should be fine, unless he was on holiday in Europe before term began.

When did his term begin/when did he arrive in Germany?

We don't know what he does or doesn't have, tbh. We understood from all the conversations we've had that he has followed the correct procedures; and he says the local auslanderampt who he's been dealing with said to him that they'd electronically issued his card but it isn't showing up at passport control.

We tried to get this sorted before he went but were told there was many weeks' delay in London, so to get it when in Germany, which was also his German university's advice.

I'm not sure what to do, now.

And Erasmus isn't the visa, it's the agreement under which he can study at the other uni without paying fees. I don't think it applies this year, funding is from the Turing Agreement which universities apply for.
Visas are a separate issue. What does the German consulate website say?
Is there anyone at his uni he can contact tomorrow?
Normal practice since last year has been students applying for visas at the consulate of relevant country before they go.
I'm not an expert on this though so please get proper advice.

Has he definitely been there more than ninety days in the last 180? That would be a problem without a visa. I guess he shouldn't be studying if that's why he's there, but that wouldn't have been picked up at the airport.

Ignore my six months comment, that's for students coming into uk to study.

Not Germany but last year my student daughter couldn't get her visa for Spain in time, so started her year abroad and flew back to London briefly to get her visa a few weeks later.

Turing has all but not happened. It's more or less not recognised! DS got final official confirmation of his German placement in about July, as many of the EU unis were very cautious about taking UK students. So once that was confirmed, we tried to apply for his student visa but, tbh, the German Embassy were absolutely uncontactable (remember this was the tail end of Covid with all the massive backlogs); they - via their website gave us a private agency to contact to get this visa; they gave him a date for an in-person interview (why??) 2 weeks after he would have arrived in Germany. But was told he could sort all of this in Germany. Also confirmed by his uni's international coordinator.

He's followed due process, and was basically told by the local auskanderampt that he had an electronic 'Erasmus' visa. Whether that was old-speak for Turing, who knows?

But passport control aren't having it, called the police who won't look at any emails he can show and are charging him.

I pray they'll let him on his flight.

Happy Christmas.

He started Sept 10th.

There is a LOT of confusion out there.

How long are you banned from Schengen for overstaying 90 days?

Oh, I know Erasmus isn't a visa; it allows you to get a visa. It's just that the proof of the visa he could get on the strength of it isn't on anyone's system.

He's just said they're allowing him to board his plane. Not sure what's happened in the past hour.

A friend who overstayed was told you could be banned for life.
you definitely need an immigration lawyer.

Turing/Erasmus is a red herring, they're just the mechanism by which students are funded.

The visa is a separate thing, which he clearly doesn't have and should have had either before he left (a student visa) or applied for as soon as he got there. Hopefully once they arrest him they'll interview him and he can demonstrate that he has applied for a student visa using the host uni as the sponsor.

How many days has he been there, and has he been in the EU at any point six months prior?

Ok so he's on his way home. That's great news.

I suspect he won't be able to return though in the NY. But that's an argument for then. Hopefully someone will arrange for his stuff to be sent on.

Depends on the country, I think, as to what the penalty is. If he's overstayed the time he's allowed, he'll probably be deported, and they should tell him what the knock-on effects are. If everything is actually in order, and he has the visa he thought he had after all, it'll be fine. Otherwise they might fine him, and can ban him from entry entirely for a varying amount of time. Even if they don't ban him, though, he won't be able to go back after Christmas until it's been 180 days since he arrived on 10 September, unless he sorts out a visa. (Which might be harder after you've been caught overstaying.)

If you can, I'd try and seek some proper advice from an immigration lawyer before he tries to go back - ideally someone who is very clear on the post-Brexit situation.

Good luck! I hope he's ok, I would imagine it's a pretty traumatic experience, especially when you thought you had done everything right and just wanted to go home for Christmas!

www.euronews.com/travel/amp/2022/11/17/non-eu-citizens-can-only-stay-90-days-in-the-bloc-what-happens-if-you-overstay-the-limit

i was reading this, it seems the punishments are proportionate and this was clearly an unintentional error. I’m glad he’s on the way home OP. frohlich weihnachten!

Oh gosh poor lad! Honestly Bloody Brexit the gift that just keeps on giving 😡

Oh yes.

I'll hopefully know more once we pick him up.

Is your son ok, @Fordian? I hope he got back home with no further problems!

What a shock! I hope he's ok. Are there any British students with him? What did they do? He might not be able to go back but I would get the German university go try and sort it out.

I’m in Switzerland not Germany- it’s a little similar.
He needs to contact his university and also the auslanderamt. They will have the proof he needs - if he needs to fly back after the break.
It is a mess at the moment. I’ve had my passport stamped so many times - and I shouldn’t because I have a Swiss residents permit

Thanks. everyone. That was one of my more stressful evenings.

So, briefly the passport person at the airport told him he had overstayed by 11 days (101 total) so she would be calling the immigration police over, who would charge him. She wasn’t interested in any emails he had (none were ‘the visa’, just ‘come to the immigration office on this afternoon with that document’). So he sat in an office at the airport for an hour messaging us. The police person arrived and said the same thing, but he got this person to look at his emails; so, basically, someone has fecked up and it isn’t Andy. He had been verbally assured by the local immigration office (auslanderampt) that they’d processed his visa, (and, tbf, who’d try and demand anything, like paper proof, from a German immigration office?).

So online systems were searched, phone calls were made (all in German). Then they told him he could go, but he would be unlikely to be allowed back in, in Jan. But they didn’t charge him, at least (fine/Schengen ban etc).

Then it was suggested he needs to talk to the immigration office he’s been dealing with locally to get them to issue the fucking visa. Needless to say, they’re shut til Tuesday; but the student coordinator at the uni is also going to weigh in. Tho he was one of those who assured A that all was in ordnung…. But, so did the immigration office, all of whom knew he was about to leave to go home for Xmas.

One might ask why this wasn’t all sorted before he went, but, due to Brexit, (the gift that keeps on giving); he didn’t know for sure he was going til July; the German consulate in London were basically uncontactable; they’d outsourced student visas to a private company who offered an INTERVIEW (why???) date for 2 weeks after the course started. Great. But DS was assured by his German uni that the best way forward was to get his visa while in Germany. Which he’s been trying to do, since Sept 10th.

I ‘get’ the Germans have no impetus to fast track a Brexit student visa. And German bureaucracy is up there with the Spanish. But they were bloody quick to threaten him with a charge that could have wrecked his immediate career.

So, we’re not out of the woods; we need to get proof that his visa has been issued in all but finality (which even so only covers him til Feb 10; he finishes a week later with the Exhibition the whole course has been leading to) so we’ve had to set up a ‘blocked’ account with several thousand Euros in it as guarantee to get an extension so he can exhibit. So we’re nervous that we’ll get a repeat of this nonsense at the French border around Feb 20th, when we collect him.

Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving.

And, of course, he might yet be deported on Jan 9 at Stuttgart airport if they aren’t satisfied with any paperwork we can obtain in the next 2 weeks.

FTR, I know I've named him on this! But there are a lot of Andys out there so I wont be contacting MN Towers to delete/amend!