Advice please. My child has poor social skills.

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My 11yr son often has very poor social skills with children of his own age. He can be a very kind and polite boy, and seems to have much better more meaningful conversations with adults. But when it comes to his friends I worry for the way he interacts with them. We have tried to correct this behaviour endless times. DH often finds it very frustrating and yells at him for the way he behaves. I don't agree with the way he yells and often puts him down, but that's a whole other story. I try and take a gentler approach explaining why his behaviour is inappropriate and how other perceive it, but nothing seems to work. I have suspected for a very long time that son has ADHD and potentially ASD.

Has anyone else dealt with behavioural issues like this?

A few examples:

He doesn't know how to say goodbye to his friends. He will be playing video games with them and we'll call him for dinner or something else (usually multiple times until we go in and demand he gets off so we end up witnessing the interaction between him and his friends). He will just say "I've got to go now. Bye" no politeness in kind of warning the child they need to go such as "I need to go now" wait for the other child to say something. Then for him to say "I'll talk to you later. Goodbye". He ends most conversations very abruptly and rudely which could leave the other children wondering what the hell just happened and see him as rude as well. But when we question him about it he says he doesn't realise it's rude (we have told him many times!) or he'll say how he doesn't know what to say or how to say goodbye.

He really gets in other people's personal space. Gets right up in their faces, or practically on their lap when he wants to see something such as what's ok their phone etc. He especially does this at home with DH, DD and I. He'll try and snatch the phone from us to show us something when we're in the middle of trying to do it ourselves.

He has no filter. He doesn't think before he speaks. The other day he was playing video games online with a boy he's never met, but who is acquaintances with other boys in his year. The boy asked my son if he knew "X name. He's my best friend" as they went to the same school. My son then blurts out "yeah, but he's kind of annoying" 🤦‍♀️ My husband lost it on him then yelling at him that he can't say that to people - especially someone who's just said they're best friends with the other boy.

He says he's joking about everything. Son doesn't really understand a joke. He will say something stupid, offensive or just a blatant lie. It's generally negative stuff. We'll get angry at him and then he'll say sarcastically "I was just joking". This could be with things like "I hate my life", "I wish my sister wasn't born", "everyone hates me", "I hate x person", or tells DD that her favourite toy was stollen, etc. Even things like I'll make him what he's asked for dinner and then call him when it's ready. He'll sit down at the table and blurt out "I don't want xxxx" and then when I get annoyed and remind him he asked me for it he'll say "just joking!" When we get cross with him his reply is always "I was just joking".

I'm getting really worried for his future friendships. He doesn't have a load of friends. He's not a bully at all and has a very kind heart. But he just doesn't know how to behave around other children. Admittedly I've not been very good about arranging play dates with other children when he was younger. I'm worried this is somehow my fault.

What can I do now to help him? I don't want him to be a loner or an outcast as he gets older. I can speak from experience that I'm also quite awkward around people and don't really maintain friendships that easily. I also have ADHD and find it hard to relate to people and keep in contact with them and align to social norms. DH is insistent that our son doesn't have a problem with being neurodiverse. I just want to help my son realise his behaviour needs to change so he doesn't push people away. 😕

Your son needs explanation and encouragement of what to do right, not continuous yelling and snark about what he's doing wrong.

Whatever his diagnosis ends up being, three things are very clear:

1. he needs patient instruction on how to do some every day things e.g. say goodbye
2. your husband is doing him far more harm than good by reacting angrily and nitpicking
3. your son is sad and trying to tell you

Re: 1), where currently you "try and take a gentler approach explaining why his behaviour is inappropriate and how other perceive it". instead you could give him clear step by steps on how to do it "properly" so he can learn it by rote. "OK DS here's how you say bye to your friends politely - you tell them you have to go, you wait for them to reply, you then say goodbye and leave/log off." You can practice this with him, like a roleplay. "If you want to see something on someone else's screen, it's polite to ask them and then make sure you stand X far away [show with your hands] to look at it. Otherwise people might feel uncomfortable."

Re: the sadness - please listen to him properly at a quiet time when it's just the two of you, and if it seems like he's unhappy talk to the teacher and/or the GP about it.

Like others I suspect some of that sadness is down to your husband's horrible behaviour. He sounds like an angry man and quite scary.

remember in a few years your son will be a teenager and things like sadness, hating his life etc could become far more serious.

The gaming stuff, just saying got to go, and the saying so and so is annoying is perfectly normal behaviour. My DS is like this as are all of his friends. Some of them even just drop offline with no explanation. Your DH is being way too hard on him in those scenarios.

I would agree with this. My 11 year would say exactly the same things. It's not ideal but it is normal for 11 year old boys. Your husband sounds a bully.

Why is your dickhead husband losing his shit with a kid? How's that going to do anything other than make the poor lad feel like crap?

This.

You have a DH problem. Your DH needs to stop pretending your DS is coping, and have him assessed so he can get the help he needs. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

Talk to his form teacher. They will have noticed and will be able to provide their thoughts.

I don't pretend to know much about neurodiversity, but I do know that the behaviour yiu describe from your son is

Yep another one here who agrees the gaming drop off is completely normal all ours friends do it that's not a neuro diverse thing that's modern gaming etiquette no need to say extensive goodbyes.

...oops

...is perfectly normal. Annoying but normal!

The behaviour from your husband is not normal. All parents get impatient sometimes but you've described a pattern of yelling and put-downs each time your son makes a relatively minor social gaffe. I'd hate my life too if that happened to me!

Your ds sounds like a lot of 11/12 year old I know. the "just joking" thing is him learning about sarcasm - my ds 12 is getting very sarky these days but we take it with good humour or, when it's a bit too far we just say that and move on. Your dh sounds like a bully and your poor boy sounds like he is on edge all the time. Don't get me wrong, I had a troubled time with my ds and it was all down to me. I was creating the tension and I, as the grown up, had to change to fix it. You and your dh need to do the same.

I feel so sad for him. Children with ASD will not compromise, there’s no point in trying.

I too used to argue with my son before his diagnosis - now we just know his routines and quirks and out of 4 boys he’s my best behaved child.

I used to worry about social interactions but I think we as parents worry way more than we need to. What you have described as worrisome between his friends sounds pretty normal to me to be honest, even for a young boy without ASD.

Please don’t argue it will make you, him and your home so unhappy. He just doesn’t get it. You guys are going to have to work around him, not the other way round if he has ASD.

Start by speaking to his school and GP to begin an ASD assessment. Good luck.

This.

My children are both high functioning autistic.
Both struggle socially.

Having a dog each and encouraging that bond between child and dog was crucial and their other animals. Board games and social play.

He should not be playing online with anyone he doesn’t know full stop.

My youngest struggles with reading emotion and saying goodbye etc he just turns around etc so we are reinforcing it - day in and day out

lots of books and discussions and board games and making things and patience

It all sounds standard for 11 to me. I currently know a lot of 11year olds. As a PP said, they do mirror you. I see it in those I know whose parents I know too. Mine definitely copies me in talking to anyone and everyone for far too long.

He sounds picked on by the pair if you.

Kuds do say ‘gotta go now bye’ without any nicieties. They’re kids

He could be ASD. He could just be tactless. But getting angry does nothing. It’s especially ineffective with autistic kids.

He probably says ‘only joking’ to defend himself if you are on at him all the time.

PLEASE please stop your DH from shouting at your poor, poor boy!!!!!!!!!!!!

He sounds like a normal kid to me. If anyone's got poor social skills, it's your husband.

A lot of it sounds kinda normal to me. My child talks like that online and he is quite a sociable child.

Pretending what he said was a joke must be learned behaviour, I am wondering who he learned it from. I would try to stop him doing that first, as it is even more annoying than his prvious comment.

Most if not all of this is your own issues being projected onto your child, and you need to get a hold of yourselves.

Saying goodbye abruptly is fine, as is saying he thinks someone's best friend is annoying. Other children can deal with an abrupt goodbye.

You want him to go above and beyond to mind other people's feelings, and you're imagining what's going on in other people's minds on top of that.
Unclench.

He's saying he's 'just joking' after expressing his feelings because you and your husband shout at him.

In the most blunt way possible, you and your husband need to STOP SHOUTING AT YOUR CHILD and instead ask him gently to expand on the statements that have sent you into such a tailspin.
Ask him how he's feeling about his day, about his sister, or whatever else he has expressed a feeling about.

By shouting at him when he expresses emotions you are teaching him that you can't deal with his feelings, that he needs to mind your feelings, and bottle his own.

The personal space issue and taking a device from someone is your child expressing anxiety. He is anxious because you and your husband have created a tense environment in which he is expected to attend to everyone's feelings but his own.

I think you both need to go to parenting class.

It's not too late to do play dates - well to have his friends around anyway. Christmas break could be the perfect time. Ask your son if he would like to invite a couple of mates over for pizza. Prep him that he has to play two player game or take turns - else they can just end up gaming separately.

Having mates over won't transform your son's social skills but it will strengthen bonds and build friendships and make those friends a bit more forgiving as they have bonded.

Heads up that even at that age they can have friends that Google stuff they shouldn't so do give them a quick knowing chat that you will be keeping an eye on the Internet searches and sites....(even if that's rubbish but you don't want kids looking at stuff they shouldn't at your house!)

If he has friends round go gently with correcting him. That might be like "have you asked x of they would like a drink" or "don't forget to say bye to your friend" not a dressing down about anything.

Hopefully friends might invite him over or ask him to do something in return and the friendships will blossom. You might see that other 11 year old boys are often not too mature in their social skills either.

I was thinking that. It sounds like he has learned to say that to stay out of trouble

He sounds like both my DDs. One has ASD and the other doesn’t but suspect adhd. The abrupt ending to conversations on the phone/online is one I’ve noticed a lot. Doesn’t seem to bother the other kids though so I think it might also be a thing they all do these days. My autistic DD has always preferred talking to adults there children but as she’s got older at secondary her friendship group has widened. There seem to be quite a few similar girls for her to socialise with. She’s very abrupt with no filter as well and I sometimes cringe BUT I’m not going to teach her to mask her autism.

If you suspect ASD then make steps towards getting an assessment. The traits you mention could be either or ASD/ADHD. Definitely have a chat with school. There are many bits who have a similar presentation to ASD than girls (a very internalised presentation with lots of learned behaviours to mask their traits and fit in) and these can often be missed by schools and other professionals. You need to have some clear evidence when you speak to anyone about this - keep a diary or notes somewhere about the traits you pick up on and also any behaviours you notice that lead to anxiety and outbursts - work out what came before the behaviour and how it was dealt with.

Your DH needs some ASD/ADHD awareness. There’s loads online which you can share with your DH. My now ex DH took a while to accept the neurodiverse behaviours I was seeing at home and even now needs to be reminded - his responses can sometimes trigger an argument/meltdown where one could be avoided. Have a read around Asperger’s in boys. Especially if your DS doesn’t have an learning disability or display any outward behaviours that are noticeable. The term Asperger’s isn’t used anymore but there’s lots of info still around as many people were given the label and still use it. NAS has a lot of useful information. And for adhd there are organisations such as the ADHD foundation - again some traits are more obvious that others.

Not sure about the rest but this 'He will just say "I've got to go now. Bye" is completely normal in video games.

Hi
our eldest son (now 23) has dyspraxia (DCDnow?) and this reads very much like his social skills, he had a tough time on and off, but he is resilient , he has just passed his apprenticeship and has been given a full time job contract.
My thoughts are this world is big enough for everyone, we all have a right to be ourselves, be quirky, be quiet, be loud, just don’t be unkind,
I attended a few dyspraxia conferences over the years, met a lot of lovely parents/young people, one of the main messages I remember from them is

your child will be ok because they have you as a parent, someone who cares enough to try and get support and understanding. The fact you’ve posted this message means you trying to understand, if you feel you want to explore more there is the dyspraxia foundation website
Hope this has been helpful, all the best 😊