Nurses strike - this is wrong isn’t it?

[Twospaniels]

A nurse in the NHS dept I work in, is joining the strike today. However, she has taken annual leave so that she still gets paid. Not only that, she is the union rep!
Something very wrong there and really not in the spirit of the strike in my opinion.

Yes it is wrong, and I am a nurse.
Why is it wrong. Can she afford to have even less in her pay packet. Probably not as that's the reason she's striking in the first place. And I am a nurse as well and support and thank my colleagues

she booked that quite a long time ago. No new leave is approved once strike action was agreed.
and she’s spending her annual leave day supporting the strike.
she had probably booked it 6 months ago to prep for Christmas or something.
she sounds dedicated to spend her annual leave on the picket line

So… let’s go with ‘if you don’t want low pay, don’t do XX job’.

No one wants low pay. So that’s the end of the nurses, carers, police, ambulance, waiters, retail assistants, pizza deliveries…..

I could go on. If we all took that approach!

Why is it ok for MPs year on year to have above inflation rises? Why is it ok for the wealthy to be able to minimise the tax they pay? Why do we think a footballer is worth more than someone who saves your or your baby’s life?

That is a harsh and callous mindset. I hope you never need or use any of these services.

British people have no idea how good they have it. Seriously. If they had to pay insurance most people would be unable to afford to be ill. Instead, there are delusions that NI and paying in should be enough.

It would be sweet if it was not so deluded.

Good for the nurses. They care in many ways, not just the job but for the future. The NHS is full of well motivated people. Could you say the same for the current Cabinet?

I don't understand, how can she be striking if she's using a day of annual leave? She's having to use up one of the days from her annual entitlement, I don't see how it's wrong. Apologies if I'm being stupid. Do you mean she's going to stand on the picket line on her legitimate day off work?

So what happens if there is a disaster like in the channel yesterday, there will be no one to tend to them.
*
Like any major incident, nurses and other HCP get called at home and asked if they can attend.*

I thought the strike dates were not announced till recently? Normally AL is booked in advance.

We shouldn't judge, surprised your a "nurse" we don't know if she's going home to a cold house or her child may need new shoes. There's lots of reasons. All of them are besides the point.

This is part of the problem though in nursing there's a nasty undertone towards nurse to nurse and HCAs also!

I see quite a few posters attacking this poster, but they do have a point. If you know in advance the career doesn't pay much, you can't later complain that it doesn't pay much.

I'm not necessarily saying there shouldn't be a pay rise (though £37k doesn't seem especially low), just that you can't complain about something when this is what you signed up for.

They knew it didn't pay much but they also didn't know the CoL would go up so much, so in real terms it's probably gone down.

A newly qualified nurse salary is about £27k.

Maybe because she gets paid such a shit wage then that was her only option! Support your colleagues and stop sniping!

But so has everyone's pay. Even high paying jobs have gone down 'in real terms' because of COL increase. Yet if everyone's wages were to go up tomorrow in line with COL, we'd end up in exactly the same position due to inflation, as COL would also go up.

Point is everyone is struggling with the rises in energy and food prices. But nurses aren't especially hard done by (in terms of wages). If they were striking mainly about working conditions, I could sort of see their side.

But in terms of wages, they knowingly entered a career that isn't especially high earning, and average nurse wages aren't actually that low. In fact they're higher than the national median wage.

@dollybird

That's similar to starting wages for teachers, police officers, taxi drivers, chefs and more. So what's the big deal?

Tbh there is always this race to the bottom argument. Nurses need a pay rise. We see how important they are.

Teachers, police, they also need COL. these are services that we need.

Do you need taxis and chefs in the same way? Nail technicians? Hairdressers, card shop assistants?

Probably not. But they have freedom to address wages and prices differently. Nurses are government employees and the government should talk to them. It's ridiculous what they have done

Did she aye ?

NHS hospital manager here. No one can take leave during industrial action. Its either in work or on strike

Do you have to have a degree for all those roles?

Yes, and everybody could try to negotiate rises if they want (although as you rightly point out, they can't raise everybody wages!).
Terms, conditions and pay you accepted 5, 10, 20 years ago shouldn't mean you have to accept them forever at the same rates.

I presume those telling nurses to just "get another job" if they want more pay will be happy to wait 24 hours for a bed following being taken to A&E or wait 3 years to have an autism assessment or give birth seeing a midwife sporadically as they have to be shared between women?

I could go on.

Do you know what a nurses jobs entail? Do you know how many patients a nurse looks after? It's around 14. Let that sink in 14 patients to one nurse and a HCA.

Then imagine you HAVE ONE poorly patient...... PLUS the other 13 to look after as well. If you had any sense you would strike on the line too!

I can't understand why you and others are upset about the strike. You all seem to forget this shit service.... we too endure as well. Nurses have their own lives, their own kids and we seek a GP just like you when you are trying to get an appointment or perhaps you have to go to A&E we follow and face the same type of issues.

I was refused a GP appointment for my own DC. The way some tell horror stories and start tarnishing all health care workers is a total disgrace.

This completely.

I work as a teacher and we have exactly the same issues. We keep on being told to cut back on what we use - this term I spent £30 on materials for my class and there were times when there were no paints and ran out of paper. At the moment, I feel like I'm working in a third world country.

I don't agree with striking in principle but equally being in the public sector does mean that the government are more likely to take advantage because they know they can and because we're "caring".

Unlike other undergraduate degrees, nursing degrees are extremely intensive. This is what the course looks like regardless of which uni is attended.
BSc Nurse Degree [ND]
Year One: 318 hours classroom based, 518 independent study, 678 on placement
Year Two: 318 hours classroom based, 472.5 hours independent study, 790.5 hours placements ,
Year Three:288 hours classroom based, 390 hours independent study, 903 hours in practice placement.

All newly qualified nurses start at band 5, and the majority will stay at this band for the duration of their career. We are expected by our employers and NMC to ensure we are up to date with clinical practice and be able to evidence this. Any career progression to band 6/7 will require further study ( Clinical Nurse Specialist posts for example, require Masters level qualifications) which is normally self funded. (current fees for an MSc in advanced Nursing practice are around £9K.

Starting salary is £27055, or £13.84 per hour. After tax and NI that works out at £22419 a year or £11.49 per hour.
Top band 5 is £32,934 or £16.84 per hour. After tax & NI £13.54 per hour. It takes 4 years to reach this level.
These sums exclude pension contributions, union fees and registration fees. Staff at our Trust also pay £25 per month for car parking.
Nurses qualifying now will also have student loans plus other debt accrued during training.

In comparison, Aldi offer £10.90 for their store cleaner roles.

Given all this, it's easy to see why nursing is not able to attract and retain staff.
Something has to change and better pay will help that.

Yes, exactly. We just want to be able to provide care to a good standard for all patients. Instead, there are elderly people lining the corridor waiting 20 hours for a bed.
'Do you know how long I'll have to wait love?' - no, no I don't but it'll be hours and hours. We will do our best to look after you, feed you, give regular meds (if they've been prescribed) take you to the toilet if you can't get there by yourself, but it's hardly ideal. People regularly say 'it's like a war zone 🤯'
It shouldn't be like this in schools and hospitals should it. Or should we just not try and do anything and let the whole NHS just go to shit? We have to try

Agreed but they are still entitled to a cost of living pay rise and also back dated pay rises to being their pay to today’s rate.

they are not asking for a bonus.

Do you know what a nurses jobs entail? Do you know how many patients a nurse looks after? It's around 14. Let that sink in 14 patients to one nurse and a HCA.

It always baffles me how childcare providers have mandatory ratios (rightly so, not saying otherwise), but nurses do not in most settings.