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Original poster

Odds of winning an infant class size appeal: no hope?

25 replies

PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 07:04

This is for an in-year transfer. We would be living a 20 second walk from the school with another child beginning at the school next year (so as close as it's possible to be catchment-wise). I'd love to avoid a waiting list situation so that we don't have to move our son twice (especially as the first move is a big one). I know these appeals don't usually work out but hoping for some stories where they do or some advice for going into the appeal with. Many thanks in advance

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ChristmasCakeAndStilton · 14/12/2022 09:00

You might be better in a primary school topic, as there are several people with vast expertise on this.

As a layman: if the class is KS1 and the school is full, and there is a place elsewhere, I can't see much chance of winning. Sorry.

Hoppinggreen · 14/12/2022 09:03

What are your grounds for appeal?
There some real experts on the Primary topic that might be able to help but unless a mistake has been made I am not sure what your grounds for appeal would be.
If the school is full it’s full

Original poster
PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 09:28

Ooh thank you @mnhq could I get this moved to the primary topic?

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Original poster
PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 09:30

It would be for a Y1 in-year transfer, my only grounds for appeal are doubtless not enough: we will be living literally on the same road as the school, there is a sibling connection (so the kids would be going to two different schools) the emotional rigmarole of potentially moving schools twice.

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Hoppinggreen · 14/12/2022 09:50

Doesn’t sound like you have grounds unfortunately.
When your other child starts there though you might move up the waitlist due to a sob link

Hoppinggreen · 14/12/2022 09:50

Sib link

Original poster
PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 10:56

Yes think you're right. I don't think I'd want to move him twice so might just have to suck up the fact there'd be two different school drop offs for years. One of the annoying things about moving large distances after kids!

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TeenDivided · 14/12/2022 10:59

I think 2 drop offs for years is far worse than moving your child twice.

ChristmasCakeAndStilton · 14/12/2022 11:01

Or send the younger child to the same school as his sibling?

FourTeaFallOut · 14/12/2022 11:05

I won an appeal for my son but that was five years ago. I was able to argue that the school had a place free by its own admission criteria and he was unfairly denied it. I made the argument myself in front of a panel and against a lawyer who was representing the school. It wasn't as stressful as it sounds, they were all friendly.

TeenDivided · 14/12/2022 11:08

The reason I think moving twice is better than 2 drop offs, isn't because it is a pain for you. It is because your DC will have entirely different and separate primary experiences, and you'll compare them and find one school less good. Plus for one child you'll be forever rushing away to pick up the sibling. They'll be in different sports days, concerts etc. Dress up days on different days.

Original poster
PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 11:19

@TeenDivided
It's just that we're moving from Scotland so it's such a big move and I'm concerned that moving him twice so quickly will be too upsetting. But I might be being a bit ott, your reasons make sense

@FourTeaFallOut do you mind me asking how you found out about the withheld place? I rang the school and they told me they are at the 30 capacity. Before I spoke to them I wondered if I could do an FOI request to make sure there wasn't any space but then I realised I sounded crazy :-)

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PatriciaHolm · 14/12/2022 11:28

An infant class size appeal can only be won on very limited grounds

  • that the admission criteria were illegal or incorrectly applied or the decision to refuse admission was not one which a reasonable admission authority would have made in the circumstances of the case - which is a very high bar to meet - it means "‘beyond the range of responses open to a reasonable decision maker’ or ‘a decision which is so outrageous in its defiance of logic or of accepted moral standards that no sensible person who had applied his mind to the question could have arrived at it’.

From what you have said, it doesn't sound as if you have grounds I'm afraid, though it is always worth trying.

For an appeal, the school/admissions authority must give you the relevant information for your appeal - so class sizes, current numbers in each class, distance/date for last place given, etc.

Original poster
PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 11:30

That's so helpful thank you

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LIZS · 14/12/2022 11:33

You can't refer to the sibling connection until or unless your dc2 has started. Presumably that application has yet to be processed. If your dc1 has to start a different school you can go wl or appeal for a year3 place in due course.

Original poster
PigPatrol · 14/12/2022 11:50

Yes that's right. He does have two cousins there too, in the year above but doubt that makes a difference

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eddiemairswife · 14/12/2022 12:58

The cousins would only count if they live with you.

Original poster
PigPatrol · 15/12/2022 11:24

Sorry for my ignorance but....I see that an example of a mistake might be eg if the school had wrongly allocated a place to an out of catchment child, but how would I ever know if this was the case? From my end I simply put in my appeal and hope it works, I'm confused about how I'd get the information to build a case (if there even was one)

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Hoppinggreen · 15/12/2022 11:26

I think it would be if they had made a mistake with regards to your application not anyone else’s

FourTeaFallOut · 15/12/2022 11:31

Sorry, thinking back my kid was in ks2. I won the appeal because the school was a three form entry and, despite having 90 kids, the distribution of the classes wasn't even - so I was able to argue that, by their criteria on class size, there was a space available which he was unfairly denied. Looking at the criteria for infant places, I think the point might still hold.

It was, I thought, a long shot but they were happy to award a place on this alone and I didn't have to go in to sibling connections and whatnot.

LIZS · 15/12/2022 11:37

PigPatrol · 15/12/2022 11:24

Sorry for my ignorance but....I see that an example of a mistake might be eg if the school had wrongly allocated a place to an out of catchment child, but how would I ever know if this was the case? From my end I simply put in my appeal and hope it works, I'm confused about how I'd get the information to build a case (if there even was one)

That would only be an argument if it all happened during a standard entry process ie. Reception applications or if you were on a waiting list and the place was incorrectly offered to another ahead of your child.

Original poster
PigPatrol · 15/12/2022 11:39

FourTeaFallOut · 15/12/2022 11:31

Sorry, thinking back my kid was in ks2. I won the appeal because the school was a three form entry and, despite having 90 kids, the distribution of the classes wasn't even - so I was able to argue that, by their criteria on class size, there was a space available which he was unfairly denied. Looking at the criteria for infant places, I think the point might still hold.

It was, I thought, a long shot but they were happy to award a place on this alone and I didn't have to go in to sibling connections and whatnot.

Gosh you're so clever! How did you find out about the distribution? I don't know the school so don't have access to how many classes/numbers in them they have

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FourTeaFallOut · 15/12/2022 11:40

The school has to supply this kind of information prior to the appeal.

FourTeaFallOut · 15/12/2022 11:48

And it wasn't clever. The biggest barrier is being prepared to sit in front of a panel, knowing the person trained in law sat next to you is there to discredit your appeal, and giving it a shot anyway.

Original poster
PigPatrol · 15/12/2022 12:22

Yeah it makes me feel a bit nauseous thinking about it. So I will just ring the school and outright ask for this information then before submitting the appeal.

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