Vegan ethics question

[WindsChange]

I don’t know any other vegans in real
life so I’m hoping there are some on here!

I am a fairly strict (but not preachy before anyone starts!) vegan and have been vegetarian my whole life before this.

l am just back from a doctors appointment who has advised me to consume honey for its anti microbial effects for my cough. I am struggling with this one. However, I’ve had this cough for 6 weeks and the other alternative is antibiotics next week if it hasn’t cleared up which is complicated due to an allergy and also they capsules are gelatine which aren’t vegan anyway!

I know medicines are ‘allowed’ under veganism but honey feels more like a food choice.
What would you do? I am torn!

What’s your reason for avoiding honey, specifically? Would you consider honey from a small, local beekeeper who manages their hives in a way that works in sympathy with the bees rather than commercially produced honey where management techniques might be less bee-friendly?

I’d just agave instead

I would try the honey but try and get some sourced locally.

Honey is a by-product of beekeeping. Beekeeping is a farming activity to provide pollinators for fruit production.

Why are you vegan, OP? What makes you eat (for example) carrots but not prawns. Both are sentient but neither are sapient.

If you simply don't like eating sapient organisms then having honey (and prawns) seems a reasonable compromise to me. If you want the strict vegan lifestyle then honey, most soy-sauce, breakfast cereal, most fruit juices and many more are off the table.

You could source honey from a more ethical source, such as a local beekeeper who allows swarms and doesn't use chemicals or control the brood etc.

I’d just agave instead

That doesn't have as much antimicrobial effect. It also has alergic complications for some. Turmeric has good antimicrobial effects but obviously you can't just drink it like honey.

My local whole foods shop sells 'ethical' honey - which is only surplus honey that the bees will not need. Maybe something like that if you can source it?

You could make a warm turmeric drink though to get the turmeric properties - there's heaps of recipes. However, honey also has soothing properties.

Why would you refuse honey, but (presumably, as a vegan) be ok with having almond milk in your coffee?

"Like sending bees to war" www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe

Look at the bigger context of food choices, rather than just whether individual food items fall into neat but simplistic categories of vegan/non-vegan.

As for honey itself, can you ask on a local FB group to see if there's any beekeepers doing natural beekeeping. Bees thrive in towns and cities, so it's not just a rural thing.

Hi OP
I used to be vegan and one thing I did realise is that a lot of the issues reported on the problem with honey is to do with how it is farmed outside of the UK. So I would allow, back then, local honey.
It depends on your reasons for not consuming animal products.

Carrots aren’t sentient 😐

OP veganism means avoiding animal exploitation as far as possible and practicable. Your health is important and if you feel you need the honey I don’t think you’re non vegan. If you’re looking for a plant based alternative there are some on this list www.healthline.com/health/natural-antibiotics#oregano

I am vegan but in rare cases I will use animal products if there's no alternative. One of them is thrush capsules as it's the only thing that works, and they contain gelatine. My real feelings about it all is that if there an alternative to an animal product, I use that. If there's no alternative then I will use the animal product. There are a couple of other examples but it works out about 2-3 times per year.

if you want to eat honey for health reasons then dont eat the cheaper imported honey. its got a very high proportion of sugar (some mass producing foreign beekeepers feed their bees sugar, rather than allowing them to forage locally). You would only get the micro-organisms etc if they are allowed to feed on plants.

Why would you assume she is ok with almond milk? There are loads of other non dairy milks.

My advice is to not care whether you, or a certain practice you want to partake, is officially certified 100% vegan or not.

Look at things on an individual level.

Do you feel ethically comfortable consuming honey made from local small-scale producers? Or even the excess honey idea mentioned upthread by a pp. If you look into the details and are comfortable with it, then crack on regardless of whether someone else can rubber stamp it as vegan.

If you're not comfortable with it, don't do it - but do so acknowledging the fact that it may mean consuming the medication containing gelatine instead.

Personally, I think your health is important!

Might as well drink milk snd eat cheese if you are going eat honey.Same thing.

Not even close to the same thing.

I probably wouldn't personally. Is it a post-covid cough? DPs took about 8 weeks to shift.

Why would you assume she is ok with almond milk? There are loads of other non dairy milks.

Because it's a well know fact that vegans and vegans alone consume almonds and avocados 😴

Nothing is truly vegan. Get some local honey and help your throat!

You wouldn't refuse crops that had been pollinated by the same bees that make the honey. Most crops use insecticides that kill off many different insects. Some crops are grown in animal products. Some sugar isn't vegan as it's filtered through bone. If you wanted to avoid anything that ever involved an animal suffering at some point you'd really struggle to eat anything.

Interesting he said honey.
I've not had honey in a long time but for staving off coughs I rely on Vitamin C and allicin max so try that first perhaps?

Vitamin 1,000 mg from Amazon.

I'm plant-based but just started eating eggs but rarely since I can't bring myself to buy anything not from a family farm where the hens are like pets.

Bees? Go for an ethical bee keeper? I think people need to keep bees otherwise they would die out, it's the world we've created.

I'm not vegan, but what about lemon?

How are carrots sentient?!

OP you just have to make a choice you feel comfy with. I don’t like the turn of phrase ‘allowed’ (I know you intimated that too) as it implies there is some vegan god you are being judged by. You have to decide your personal boundaries. I am veggie and so are my kids but I let them eat haribo for example or eat meat when out and about on occasion if they choose. In pregnancy I was always open to eating meat if there were signs my body wanted to or it would be the best choice( it never did though). For me my own ethics are about making the least harmful choices that allow me to live a happy life too. And in general I’d say better a happy meat eater than a miserable veggie/vegan. This is just me, and I disagree morally with eating meat in general, but life is full of ambiguity and you need to decide what feels right for you.

I am not vegan but I eat according to vegan principles the vast majority of the time. I make the occasional exception based on how I feel about that individual thing. I do occasionally buy honey from a local beekeeper (very possibly containing pollen from the flowers in my own garden :-) ). I think in terms of both environmental and animal welfare impact that is pretty low down the bad list. I would absolutely eat the honey in this case but make the effort to source locally. At the end of the day it is personal choice - there is no perfect standard to live up to - the only person holding you to account is you.

Also - carrots are not sentient