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Original poster

Strikes how do unions work?

128 replies

alasangne · 09/12/2022 19:56

I've never been in a union there isn't one for my profession. How do they work? Are all the royal mail post people automatically put in a union when they join? And if they don't want to strike do they have to or the union fires them?

OP posts:
melonraspberry · 09/12/2022 21:13

In my work I do think badly of those not striking , I didn't think I would but we have so many pickets and a feeling of solidarity and I can't believe people who are not supporting, and probably trying to pick up others work hence essentially undermining us.

I'd never say anything or act differently but the feeling will always be there now . It's sad really. But striking in itself is so sad. No one wants to strike.

Threadkillacilla · 09/12/2022 21:17

melonraspberry · 09/12/2022 21:13

In my work I do think badly of those not striking , I didn't think I would but we have so many pickets and a feeling of solidarity and I can't believe people who are not supporting, and probably trying to pick up others work hence essentially undermining us.

I'd never say anything or act differently but the feeling will always be there now . It's sad really. But striking in itself is so sad. No one wants to strike.

I've seen it split families up. It's hard when the numbers show that some of the breakers must have voted for the strike and are letting others do the dirty work.

melonraspberry · 09/12/2022 21:20

I actually don't want to know who is working. But I do know one who will be trying to do my role as they were asking for a handover. I just didn't reply.

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TomAllenWife · 09/12/2022 21:20

It's all a bit weird in nursing

I'm in Unite Union, not RCN.

So I don't strike next week but some of my team will
I will strike in January probably but then the RCN staff may not

It would make much more sense and hold more weight if they were coordinated

I have to admit that I'm disappointed in my RCN colleagues who are choosing not to strike

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 21:23

I don't massively understand how unions work. I am a member of UNISON, because it was cheaper than the RCN when I qualified as a nurse.

When I first joined, it was £14 per month. It is now £20.30 per month, but works out as £16.24 per month after tax relief.

Nurses and midwives also pay £120 a year to the Nursing and Midwifery Council, which is the regulatory body, not a union.

I mainly joined UNISON to have access to legal help if I ever needed it (which I haven't, thank God).

There are a few different unions people in healthcare can join, I think anyone in any job can join unions like UNISON, Unite and GMB Union. Then there are profession specific unions, like Royal College of Nursing (RCN), Royal College of Midwives (RCM), British Dietican Association, Chartered Society of Physiotherapy.

It is confusing as there are so many unions, and I think it's hard to coordinate negotiations with so many.

RoseAndRose · 09/12/2022 21:33

Its similar in teaching, NEU and NASUWT, plus UNISON

NASUWT has, quite deliberately and specifically, non-binding strike ballots, which means that members are not collectively bound to strike.

Are there any other unions with non-binding strike action?

Tippexy · 09/12/2022 21:33

MrsHamlet · 09/12/2022 20:45

Union members are not obliged to tell anyone they're striking. As a union rep, I won't disclose who my members are, and certainly not if they intend to strike.

But it would be obvious from their out of office message / not turning up to work. And it would not be allowed for them to be on annual leave instead.

melonraspberry · 09/12/2022 21:34

@Tippexy yes you want your employer to know you are striking. What you don't want is to help their planning for it !

Tippexy · 09/12/2022 21:35

melonraspberry · 09/12/2022 21:13

In my work I do think badly of those not striking , I didn't think I would but we have so many pickets and a feeling of solidarity and I can't believe people who are not supporting, and probably trying to pick up others work hence essentially undermining us.

I'd never say anything or act differently but the feeling will always be there now . It's sad really. But striking in itself is so sad. No one wants to strike.

Perhaps they can’t afford it?

Honeyroar · 09/12/2022 21:36

Alexandra2001 · 09/12/2022 20:49

R4 was reporting that 100s of postal workers have crossed picket lines, can't afford not to work.

I'd imagine this will be the govts tactic for other disputes too.

Companies always say this to try and undermine the strike. I wouldn’t necessarily believe it,

And yes the companies will go a long way to try to get strike breakers to go in. The company I worked for paid to have opaque screens put up on employee transport windows so nobody could see them (although they forgot people could see them through the windscreen!). They also discussed potential promotions for people to tempt them in.

People that weren’t union members were expected to go in, and did. Union members that broke the strike and went in were massively looked down upon by those that did strike. That lasted for years, it ruined the camaraderie in the workforce that we used to have. I know a few people actually committed suicide due to fall outs and repercussions. We were given strike pay from the unions to tide us over. That probably won’t happen now as too many places are striking at once.

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 21:37

@TomAllenWife

I am thinking of leaving UNISON and joining the RCN because of this.

I joined UNISON because they caught me at a freshers fair nearly a decade ago, and gave me a free medical dictionary and a pen 🤣. And they were cheaper than RCN at the time.

Maybe all of us nurses in unions other than RCN should consider this.

The RCN strike at my hospital didn't get votes back from at least 50% of RCN members, so didn't meet the criteria.

I voted yes in the UNISON ballot, but haven't figured out how to find the result yet.

HollyDollyChristmas · 09/12/2022 21:38

alexdgr8 · 09/12/2022 20:48

employers will not normally grant annual leave or any kind of planned leave on a strike day.
for obvious reasons.

Exactly this
But leave was booked prior to industrial action being announced then you would be classed as on leave wouldn’t have your salary docked. If you phoned in sick you would have to provide a doctors note.

EdithWeston · 09/12/2022 21:41

Union members that broke the strike and went in were massively looked down upon by those that did strike. That lasted for years, it ruined the camaraderie in the workforce that we used to have

Have you watched the series 'Sherwood'? Loosely based on real events, it shows how long the aftermath of divisions because of strikes can endure

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 09/12/2022 21:42

@MrsHamlet : "Union members are not obliged to tell anyone they're striking. As a union rep, I won't disclose who my members are, and certainly not if they intend to strike."

Sure. Staff were expected to own up individually, as it was the only way for the employer to know not to pay them. I could only report those who did, obviously. Some openly advertised it anyway, eg on their out-of-office email message.

@melonraspberry : "I didn't tell management I was striking nor did I put in place any plans to have my work covered or give any handover. That's kinda the point..."
Absolutely!

RichardMarxisinnocent · 09/12/2022 21:47

Tippexy · 09/12/2022 21:33

But it would be obvious from their out of office message / not turning up to work. And it would not be allowed for them to be on annual leave instead.

Show quote history

Presumably if you had leave booked before the strike was announced you'd still be allowed to take it? At what would happen if you needed to attend a medical appointment or funeral which you only found out about after the strike was known about? Would you really be told you couldn't have the time off?

I am an NHS non-clinical employee, last time there was a strike which people in my department might have joined I recall being told sickness on that day couldn't be self certified, but don't recall the rules on leave. No idea what you'd do if you were genuinely too sick to work, surely you're not going to be able to get a GP to give you a fit note for something like a migraine or a D&V?

MrsHamlet · 09/12/2022 21:49

I'm not obliged to "own up." If strike ballot ends with a strike, my head will assume I'll strike because he knows I'm a rep. It'll be obvious to everyone else when I don't turn up.
Members will be advised not to reply to the "are you striking" email.

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 21:49

RoseAndRose · 09/12/2022 21:33

Its similar in teaching, NEU and NASUWT, plus UNISON

NASUWT has, quite deliberately and specifically, non-binding strike ballots, which means that members are not collectively bound to strike.

Are there any other unions with non-binding strike action?

I'm going to sound a bit stupid here, are you saying that there are ballots which are binding, as in, if you vote yes, you have to strike? You can't change your mind?

I'm fairly sure that the UNISON nursing strike that I voted yes for didn't say it was binding.

I voted yes to make a statement, personally I don't think I will strike. Though I could always tell my manager I went on strike that day: they don't have a clue if I'm at work or not most of the time. But I would feel uncomfortable not going in.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 09/12/2022 21:49

Also, as a non union member, would union members consider it ok for me not to strike? If there were pickets outside the hospital would they consider me to be breaking the strike if they saw me arriving at work?

EdithWeston · 09/12/2022 21:53

I'm going to sound a bit stupid here, are you saying that there are ballots which are binding, as in, if you vote yes, you have to strike? You can't change your mind?

It's more than that.

If your Union, collectively, votes to strike, then whichever way you voted you are bound to strike.

It's only optional if either
a) the Union's constitution sets out that strike ballots are non-binding, or
b) the specific ballot was worded to show clearly it was non binding.
In those cases you can personally decide right up to the start of te strike.

But for the vast majority of Unions and ballots, the collective majority is binding on all

EdithWeston · 09/12/2022 21:55

RichardMarxisinnocent · 09/12/2022 21:49

Also, as a non union member, would union members consider it ok for me not to strike? If there were pickets outside the hospital would they consider me to be breaking the strike if they saw me arriving at work?

If you're non-union then you don't have to strike, and should not be prevented from going to work.

Union members will respect your right. But no-one's going to guarantee they'll really consider it OK

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 21:56

RichardMarxisinnocent · 09/12/2022 21:49

Also, as a non union member, would union members consider it ok for me not to strike? If there were pickets outside the hospital would they consider me to be breaking the strike if they saw me arriving at work?

Do you work in a hospital? Or are you asking a theoretical question?

I am a union member who voted yes to strike. I don't think I will actually strike. Most other nurses I know say the same.

Some people say that they will judge people for not striking, others say that they will judge people for striking.

I only know of one nursing friend who is an RCN member and planning to strike for one day, she doesn't know of any picket line plans outside the hospital where she works. I don't think that there will be any.

There will also be staff who want to strike, but have to work, ICU, chemotherapy, paediatrics etc.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 09/12/2022 22:02

EdithWeston · 09/12/2022 21:55

If you're non-union then you don't have to strike, and should not be prevented from going to work.

Union members will respect your right. But no-one's going to guarantee they'll really consider it OK

Show quote history

Thank you. I'd probably not want to strike, partly because of not being paid but mainly at the moment because I'd be too stressed about the work I wasn't getting done - I'd probably end up working late on the days before and after to make up for it, as am currently working on a project that we really can't be falling behind on.

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 22:02

@EdithWeston

Ah I see, thanks for explaining that for me. I'm guessing nursing strikes aren't binding, as they need to provide minimum staffing levels. Which worryingly (apparently) are better staffed that what a lot of places usually are.

RichardMarxisinnocent · 09/12/2022 22:06

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 21:56

Do you work in a hospital? Or are you asking a theoretical question?

I am a union member who voted yes to strike. I don't think I will actually strike. Most other nurses I know say the same.

Some people say that they will judge people for not striking, others say that they will judge people for striking.

I only know of one nursing friend who is an RCN member and planning to strike for one day, she doesn't know of any picket line plans outside the hospital where she works. I don't think that there will be any.

There will also be staff who want to strike, but have to work, ICU, chemotherapy, paediatrics etc.

Show quote history

Yes I do work in a hospital, but am not clinical. There were UNISON members at the perimeter of the site some mornings a few weeks ago handing out leaflets, I think about balloting for a strike. I thought those same people might picket.

WhatLikeItsHard · 09/12/2022 22:06

@RichardMarxisinnocent

Yes I feel the same. If I didn't work, no one else would be picking up my work.

The only people who would know I had actually been to work that day are the patients and my colleagues (which I can now count on one hand). Management would have no idea and probably wouldn't care.