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House building targets scrapped.

196 replies

socialmedia23 · 06/12/2022 12:57

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/05/sunak-backs-down-on-housebuilding-targets-after-pressure-from-tory-mps

I am surprised there isn't a thread on this already on a parenting forum because this really does threaten British preferences and social norms. Most british people want to live in a house with garden. I was just on a thread where a poster was trying to decide whether she should downsize from a house to a flat in her preferred location and the prevailing consensus was that flats were no good for babies, should have a house with garden where the children can play in etc etc. This isn't the norm in many countries in the world, but it appear to be the norm in the UK outside London. However, what this norm depends on is LAND. in cities where there is generally less opposition to building, they tend to build flats due to the high cost of land.

The reason why so many British people live in houses today is because there was a house building boom in the 1930s and then the 1950s where they built lots of houses. Including ex council houses with gardens in the 1950s. I own a 1930s flat and when i read local history, it was literally opposite an actual farm. So while it is suburban london today, it was considered quite a rural area when it was built and completely different in character; today I am a 2 minute walk to a dry cleaners, a bakery, a small local supermarket/deli, a breakfast place and a 15 minute walk from a tube station that takes me to central london within 20 minutes.

So scrapping house building targets would mean that the future houses for the young Britons of today would not get built while the population is increasing. As every area would be able to object to housebuilding if it 'has an impact on the local character'. If this was the case in the 1930s, my flat would never have been built. And perhaps I wouldn't have been able to afford to stay in London as the only properties available would be Victorian workers cottages, flats above shops and grand mansions.

I think that this does not bode well for young people. As my friend said, if he did not have the means to buy property, he would definitely leave the UK. This could potentially engineer a London style housing crisis even in affordable regions of the UK. Never mind about houses for young families, I think 50% of the population would be struggling to rent. I read a stat that 25% of renters are either returning to the family home or would do so within the next year. This is the situation in 2022; how much worse would it be in 10 years time?

And no increasing mortgage rates would not help with this. You need the supply.

OP posts:
yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:25

a pp also mentioned that people have had enough of this....I really hope so. It's beyond a joke how overdeveloped we are

Are you suggesting we kill people off?!

socialmedia23 · 06/12/2022 17:27

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 06/12/2022 17:05

???? Madness. Absolutely bobbins. Cities for the poor, green rural lovely cleanliness for the wealthy. Presumably there will some housing for the servants, the healthcare workers rich old people will require?

I assume you haven't looked at what happened to the people who were uprooted and moved, say Scottish steelworkers to Corby?

Or the destruction of communities, scattering of families when Everton was cleared? Oh and the realities of the housing they were moved into - concrete fatigue, The Piggeries etc.

Such social manipulation has to be very carefully undertaken, It rarely, if ever, works well when not a natural process.

Cities have always been the natural home of the poor. in London, the rich and the poor have always lived cheek by jowl. in fact when my DH was growing up in London, his area had more poor people than rich. Now the workers cottages in his area cost £650k and a normal house costs £1 million, there are more students and professionals than poor people. But poor people would have been better off living there with its great transport links than in some commuter town where they have to pay £20 per trip to London.

OP posts:
Soothsayer1 · 06/12/2022 17:28

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 06/12/2022 17:06

since many british people dream of living rurally

But you said there wouldn't be the jobs. They would need to work on farms, pick fruit, wipe rich old arses!

we are all too old fat and unfit for that kind of thing!
well I am anyway....actually I wouldn't mind picking fruit for a living, but not if it means hard toil for hardly any money coupled with bunking up in a caravan with gang of strangers!
if that's the best job offer they can stuff it, I'll live frugally off my savings & enjoy the free time....which is presumably why no one can get workers to staff businesses!

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:36

Ludicrous isn't it?

why is it ludicrous?

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:37

We should ship our rural urchins into the Big Smoke. Let them Oliver about Town for a few years. Get a real education!!

I take it you don't spend much time in cities! 😆

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:39

@socialmedia23 there's a bulge still to come for London secondaries but primaries are a different issue in the next decade & not just London. Every time the forecast it gets lower!

amp.theguardian.com/education/2022/jul/14/pupil-numbers-in-england-set-to-shrink-by-near-1m-in-10-years

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:40

so even there, local people are being priced out!

local people are priced out everywhere. I was born & raised in z2 but can't afford to buy there. Should I have not moved?

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 06/12/2022 17:42

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:36

Ludicrous isn't it?

why is it ludicrous?

I was being sarcastic - see also the Dickensian comment in the same post!

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 06/12/2022 17:44

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:37

We should ship our rural urchins into the Big Smoke. Let them Oliver about Town for a few years. Get a real education!!

I take it you don't spend much time in cities! 😆

Since I was about 20 I have been avoiding them.

Born in Liverpool, lived in London for about 6 months and absolutely hated it. The press of people, lack of space, quiet etc. By far prefer living rurally. Even with the lack of facilities you townies take for granted 🙂

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 06/12/2022 17:47

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:40

so even there, local people are being priced out!

local people are priced out everywhere. I was born & raised in z2 but can't afford to buy there. Should I have not moved?

I'm not the person to ask that. I changed schools every year as a kid as my dad sought his perfect space.

As a young adult I moved about 200 miles from family to find my own life. And have moved around since then.

I am not a local anywhere and would move again if finances required it.

I am always a "move in" 😃

EmmaAgain22 · 06/12/2022 17:50

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:25

a pp also mentioned that people have had enough of this....I really hope so. It's beyond a joke how overdeveloped we are

Are you suggesting we kill people off?!

No. Are you?

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:51

I was being sarcastic - see also the Dickensian comment in the same post!

that's awkward!

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:52

@EmmaAgain22 I'm not moaning about overpopulation & overdevelopment am I? What do you think should be done about people living longer?

EmmaAgain22 · 06/12/2022 17:53

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:15

We also have services that are at capacity, including GPs, schools

London schools will be facing a surplus of places soon, not enough kids!

Where are these places with not enough kids? I don't have kids but I mentioned it to friends with DC and they seemed to think it was a myth, though I realise it probably looks different when you are trying to get DC a school.

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:55

Even with the lack of facilities you townies take for granted

How do you come to that conclusion?

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:56

@EmmaAgain22 i think two people including me have posted an article

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:57

they seemed to think it was a myth

falling birth rates are a myth? 🤦🏻‍♀️

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:58

I'm not the person to ask that. I changed schools every year as a kid as my dad sought his perfect space.

I inferred from your posts that you took umbrage with locals being priced out.

socialmedia23 · 06/12/2022 17:59

EmmaAgain22 · 06/12/2022 17:53

Where are these places with not enough kids? I don't have kids but I mentioned it to friends with DC and they seemed to think it was a myth, though I realise it probably looks different when you are trying to get DC a school.

there is a primary school one stop away from me that seems to have a very wide catchment, including taking children living on the next stop of the tube line. The primary school is in Highgate.I think its probably because the local children attend private school as many people on our local facebook group rate it quite highly otherwise.

OP posts:
EmmaAgain22 · 06/12/2022 17:59

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:52

@EmmaAgain22 I'm not moaning about overpopulation & overdevelopment am I? What do you think should be done about people living longer?

I'm not ignoring you but I'd like to not to be banned or chased out with sticks.

none of my ideas involve killing anyone! You might be interested in the book "Prosperity without growth" by Tim Jackson.

the elderly thing goes in cycles. About 30 years ago, there was a bulge in elderly, then it altered to children, I think? And now we're back here. Doing this from memory so not sure.

yoyy · 06/12/2022 18:01

@EmmaAgain22 i'm not sure what you are going on about.

the elderly thing goes in cycles.
That's not how demographics work...
When did we previously have an ageing population that was reversed?

Soothsayer1 · 06/12/2022 18:02

yoyy · 06/12/2022 17:57

they seemed to think it was a myth

falling birth rates are a myth? 🤦🏻‍♀️

I had the same response! I think we've been bombarded with the 'there are too many of us' message for so long that it's become dogma!
Most of us understand that populations can grow exponentially but few seem to realise that they can shrink in the same manner

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 06/12/2022 18:03

if that's the best job offer they can stuff it, If @socialmedia23 is correct, all the stereotypes are true then yes! That is the very best rural areas can offer

[wonders if that will be enough to persuade more Townies to satay in their urban sprawl?]

yoyy · 06/12/2022 18:04

@Soothsayer1 so many seem not to get it no wonder the gov aren't planning for it.

Soothsayer1 · 06/12/2022 18:05

actually that's wrong, population collapse will be worse than population explosion, at least with that you have lots of you energetic people to get things done, with the other it's just people who are closed minded and set in thier ways and not enough people with energy & vision to move us forward