Civil service experience - promotions?

[Awcw1234]

I have been offered a EO role within a department I am very keen to work for. However, I’ll be taking a £8k paycut which is quite a bit less than I’m earning now. I’ll be working much closer to home and working better hours though. I can afford it but obviously I want to get back up to what I’m earning now or more.

Is it easy to get promoted once in the Civil Service? Are more jobs advertised internally rather than externally? I don’t see many advertised for this department which is making me think most are advertised internally.

Are HEO/SEO roles difficult to get? This will be my first CS job but I have over 10 years experience working within the public sector at an EO equivalent level.

Thanks

In my dept it seems to be relatively easy to go up to HEO from EO, but the next step up to SEO is much harder. And I'm not sure the extra responsibility is worth the extra ££.

We have lots of opportunities for temporary promotions via expression of interest, which often lead to a permanent role. But we can't apply for those unless we've been in role for at least six months (in some depts it's 12 months). Each department varies though, as do NDPBs.

I should add that you can go for externally advertised jobs at any time, you don't need to wait until you've passed probation.

So on most bits of civil service which I've worked, you wouldn't earn as much as private sectors, but the other side is usually flexible working, job stability, secure pension, I went part-time without trouble after maternity leave etc

Promotion is still majority competency based which often means you can move around different areas, departments etc

You can apply on promotion (I believe anytime although might be a bit frowned upon if still on probation period for current post), for level transfers you need to have done 2yrs in post.

SEO, and a lot of HEO roles, will have line management so you'll need to have built up experience to cover those competencies.

There is recruitment, however it can move with the political tide.... so within last year Rees-Mogg put a freeze on so nothing was being advertised internally or externally (needed top sign off to do), and then overnight that was removed so back to BAU.

How do promotions work in the civil service? Do you have to wait for a vacancy to arise?

CS here, don't know if all depts are the same. You have to wait for a vacancy. It used to be that they were advertised internally, then to the wider CS then externally if not filled. Now it is automatically external. And certainly in our dept, you can be doing a role for a year on TP and not get it when advertised externally.

Yes, you have to find a vacancy, that may be a new created role, or an existing one to be filled - you wouldn't just get regraded in your current role, they don't have that fluidity.

Honestly if you have 10 years experience I would not go in as an EO, which is /a level leaver level. Hold out for an HEO at least unless you know they are rarely externally advertised in your desired dept.

Only if your face fits or it is expedient for someone higher up 😆 ex civil servant ( Charity Commission)

Really? I thought AA and AO level were entry levels?
I have over 10 years working public sector but not CS. Can’t see me getting in as a HEO without the relevant experience? The HEO roles I’ve seen advertised require experience I can’t gain unless I’m in the department.

No, AA /AO is usually the OPS roles like prison staff, claim managers etc. Entey can be post gcse

EO is post a level

HEO is post foundation degree, or for those who don't get on fast stream

SEO is graduate fast track

Then you're in to the numbered grades before SCS.

Ahhhh I see. I graduated with a Law degree over 10 years ago. Am I doing something really silly? I really want to get into the CS but all the higher graded roles require experience that I don’t have :(

The EO roles in my department require degrees so not sure what the previous poster is saying about them being a level entry point.

As others have said you can only get promotion through vacancy filling.

Just had a look at the advert. There is no mention of needing a degree.
I think the department I’ve applied for prefers relevant experience over qualifications maybe.

It's not really a promotion. You apply for vacancies at the next grade up when you find a job role that suits you that you think you can match the behaviours for. You could be waiting a long time if you want to progress in one organisation (number of factors determine that though of course). It's usually quicker to hop around organisations just because there will be more opportunities.

I'd also try and shoot for HEO minimum, I went in at SEO with 10 years work experience outside the CS under my belt.

But yes generally speaking a variety of opportunities, I've been very lucky in my current organisation to be offered expensive training qualifications, being handed out like sweeties atm!

It's all about the experience you can get under your belt. If you join at EO I would keep an eye out for HO or SO jobs once you pass your probation. Although you should be able to apply for CS jobs aimed at externals outside the CS. The benefit of being inside the CS is you will have access to the internally advertised job.

It really depends what the EO job is but if you get a chance to do work outside the EO role then grab it. It's all about being able to demonstrate experience doing X or Y.

I think the Fast Stream is being relaunched any day now so you should look at this too.

What experience do they require that you don't have OP? Rarely does a candidate in any job have all the required skills or experience! I think with a law degree and ten years exp you should be aiming SEO which is fast track graduate entry, or graduate entry plus a couple of years. Or, HEO if not which is straight grad entry (non fast track)

From the little you’ve said I’d also hold out for an HEO role as you may not get enough stretch / may get bored in an EO role.
in my dept there are dwindling EO roles (and no AA/AO - those tend to be operational, so DWP, MoJ), and they tend to be admin only and with limited autonomy.
moving up can happen quickly depending on which dept, and your experience.

Fast track scheme opens up on Thursday.

Not sure it is for me though. From what I’ve read, you need to be flexible about locations and be willing to work very long hours. I have a mortgage and two young children in primary school so that would be impossible for me.

I meant you could apply for an SEO position straight, not you needed to go fast track. I was just trying to explain the levels using it as an example

It varies massively depending on the Department in my experience. And doesn't seem entirely fair from what I've seen. We have mainly AO grade in my Department and they have vast experience and knowledge, so no not GCSE level. And the only hope of promotion is being a team leader which requires no technical skills. But this is very different in comparison to other CS departments, so will depend on where you are applying.

I went in at SEO level from private sector just applying. I had ten years experience in my area at that time. I wouldn't go for an EO level role these are low skilled admin type roles in most depts?

I'm back in the private sector now!

I would say it varies a lot depending on the department. Are you able to say which one it is?

In my department (mostly policy), I've seen loads of people with degrees come in at EO level, do interesting work (briefing for ministers, meetings with stakeholders etc) and get promoted to HEO within a year, then SEO within another year. My director came in as an EO about 15 years ago, in fact. But other more operational departments would be different. Others come in at EO and stay there (usually out of choice). It's really varied. But you will 100% get more opportunities once you're in then as an external candidate.

Recently retired from public sector/CS equivalent job where there haven’t been AA/AO grades for years, they were merged into a single Team Support grade. Is that not the case throughout the CS?

I think it depends on the department. I've been with the CS a year now and almost everyone in my team has moved up a grade (or two in one case) since I started here. I think it's quite easy to get to Grade 7 once you know the role properly. After that it seems to get harder but obviously, there are fewer roles at Grade 6 and SCS so more competition!

In my team, the EO staff are sandwich students or apprentices. We had one non student EO with a lot of previous non-CS work experience but he moved to HEO within 8 months.

There are lots of temporary promotion opportunities too, although in my experience they tend to be taken by people already in the team so not as easy to get unless it's literally the role directly above your own.

How is that even fair?