Am I supposed to hate Julia? (Motherland)

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I'm about 4 episodes in (season one), and honestly - I find her and, more specifically, her husband, so fucking annoying that I may just have to throw the towel in.

I get that she is supposed to be a harangued mother, feckless dad, etc, but she is just so incredibly unlikeable.

She berates her mother, so cruelly, for stepping back on childcare (creating a gap the wanker dad should be helping to fill), sometimes in front of her mothers friends.

She only ever does stuff with or for her kids because other people have basically played on her massive insecurities. But it's at caricature point now, where its losing any humour.

I'm just not finding the comedy at all with her. I'm wondering if the fact that there isn't even a drop of niceness written into her character means we are supposed to dislike her?

I'm only still watching for Anne and Liz. Even Kevin - they made him a bit funny at the start but it's going a bit slapstick (the wearing all the coats scene?)

I want to get it, and I want to like it, and there bits I like. But it just feels so over over the top. Like they've ramped up any potential for a bit of comedy to just levels of ridiculousness.

julia is a deeply flawed character. I don’t think as a viewer you’re supposed to like her but I think there are definitely elements of her character that some people (me!) can relate to. She’s like the worst voice in your head! I absolutely love motherland but it’s not for everyone. Life would be so dull if we all liked the same things!

I don’t think Ann is in a happy marriage. Her husband to strangle her ‘in his sleep’, he has alcohol issues and has moved into the spare room after one of the recent babies. All of these things just popping up in passing, seeming to go over her head.

Why do you watch it then ? You are taking it far too seriously !!

Again taking it a bit too seriously jees 🙄

I like her a lot. Feels very close to home.

There was a "what motherland character are you" thing on here a while ago. Loads of people seemed proud to be Julia.

I think she's vile. I couldn't be her friend, she's selfish and manipulative. I would be ashamed to be her. Struggled to watch it as I found it stressful, but did so for my DH.

I'm southern fwiw.

The only one I can't like is Amanda. The others at least strike a chord as an exaggerated character.
I've never met anyone like Amanda.

Julia is relatable at times and is very funny. The actress makes the role.

I thought this was a thread for discussing characters and plots, everyone else is! Am I not allowed to join in if I think a character portrayed as happy can't really be if tolerating being treated like shit? Or is it I find the only working class mum and those involved with her a bit offensive ?

@PeterRabbitHadACarrot it's a comedy, Anne isn't some more of battered wife it's all light hearted.

I love her and I am her. She acts out all the frustrations we repress. A bit like Basil Fawlty

I felt this a few years ago. Couldn’t watch it as it made me feel quite stressed - too close to the bone. Life is now calmer and watching it is much funnier

I'm not entirely sure how to respond.
We're discussing characters. A plot. That involves discussion. Usually beyond oh it's supposed to be a comedy so lol.
Maybe there are terrible writers who don't see how a character is developing and is just a shallow character perfectly happy with not being treated quite like a human being.
Seems unlikely to me, probably building up to more.

@PeterRabbitHadACarrot again I think people
(Not just you!) are reading too much into it! They are comedy characters i don't think they all need psycho analysing.

You haven't read much have you?
Characters develop, you look back and say 'oh yes how did I not see it?'. Then the more you read, the better you are at picking up cues about how things may develop.
Anne is quite obviously a troubled character. I doubt the writers didn't notice and would create someone with such little emotional depth.

That's where the comedy lies with Anne. She seems on the surface like a sort of simple pushover mumsy type but then she rebels by having an after party or drops in that her husband tries to strangle her or that she uses to be head of product development at GlaxoSmithKline.

@PeterRabbitHadACarrot whatever ! Good day to you

Seems obvious to me that most of the the time we're not supposed to like Julia. She tries to use people and situations to her own advantage. Often in an arse-clenchingly inept way. But I like that there's a normal, middle of the road mum character who isn't generally lovely. I do think as the programme progresses we see her in a more three dimensional way, and why she's so stressed and dissatisfied.

As an aside, why do women always try and analyse whether they're supposed to like a female character? Have seen it countless time on MN with Carrie's character from Sex and the City. Have never heard of a man asking if it's okay if they like/don't like Tony Soprano or Don Draper.

It's fine not to like a female lead character.

As an aside, why do women always try and analyse whether they're supposed to like a female character? Have seen it countless time on MN with Carrie's character from Sex and the City. Have never heard of a man asking if it's okay if they like/don't like Tony Soprano or Don Draper.

I know!! It’s low level misogyny/internalised misogyny - people will watch programmes like Dahmer and Breaking Bad and be glued to the screen watching, and enjoying, these vile men - but a female character who is stressed and therefore a bit rude is enough to turn them off the whole show it’s really indicative of how we expect women in TV and film to be. Unless they’re absolutely good and lovely and simper over men and forgive shitty people and are super kind, we decide we don’t like them. Heaven forbid a woman have a flaw after all. I see it on the Handmaids Tale threads - people ‘don’t like June anymore’. They likes her as a submissive concubine but now she’s angry about her daughter being kidnapped and about being raped and all of a sudden she’s unlikeable 🙄

<rant over>

I think you’re meant to see reflections of yourself or people you know, and it’s a staple of comedy. Take Peep Show. You’re not meant to like Mark and Jeremy, but many people (especially men) will see aspects of their character in them. Mark thinks he’s clever and more sophisticated than he is and is envious of clever, sophisticated people. Jeremy thinks he’s cooler and talented than he is. Who doesn’t see that in themselves at times?

Same with Motherland. Julia, for me, is the everywoman, trying to cope with the demands of career and family, and she does some pretty horrible selfish things to get by. Who hasn’t felt a pang of recognition?

Motherland is very clever because it shows Julia’s selfish and funny side but she also has the most deep and profound moments in the series. The Mothers’ Day one stands out for me. Nobody at all makes an effort with her and her husband is being a lazy prick. She sees that Meg’s kids have gone to huge efforts and even made T-shirts with her name on. She expresses to her mum that she expected a ‘reward’ (in the form of love and appreciation) for parenting and she uses to get it when the kids were tiny bit now she’s invisible.

Then when Meg tells her the only reason her kids have made such an effort is because it may be her last Mothers’ Day and she’s scared it puts it into perspective but it doesn’t invalidate Julia’s feelings.

The final episode of season 3 where she leaves a message for the builder breaks my heart. I think every mum whose kids are growing up can relate to feeling unloved.

You aren’t supposed to particularly like her. Definitely not at the beginning. You are supposed to understand her… or get to understand.

I like watching it because you can see how all of the characters have become the way they are through what is going on in their life around them.

I like how awful she is. But then I like them all, even Meg. I work with a few Megs and I'm a bit in awe of their ability not to give a fuck about the small stuff and call people out (cf Meg to Amanda on Sports day when Amanda makes a snippy comment and Meg responds).

I also like Julia's husband. As Liz says, he accepts her mum when she's ill, he calls to say he loves her when he has his vasectomy, he has a vasectomy! Yes he's an arse and very self centred but so is she. I also have a soft spot for Oliver Chris so I'll admit that helps.

Best is Amanda. She is just so sad and I just want to hug her because she's so unhappy. Her ex husband was the real shit - the jealousy, the moods, the squaddie. Letting her down going to the lemonheads (which reminds me Paul was due to turn up to the cottage albeit cycling down but Julia not at all concerned when he doesn't turn up).

Hope they continue it with the characters parenting teens. Lots of material there!

You like Julia’s husband?! Are you insane?! He does fuck all!

I agree, loved that scene about her job ‘didn’t you use to work in Greggs’