Working more really doesn't always pay does it :(

[Redwineandroses]

Just a little whinge really. I was working 30 hours a week term time, as I'm a single parent and it fit around looking after my dc. Now they're older (teens) I thought I'll go for a job promotion at work.

I've been claiming tax credits to top up my income and when I got the promotion it was 37 hours per week, 42 weeks a year (as opposed to 39 weeks term time.) Tax credits reduced but the extra money I was earning evened out.

Then the opportunity for a further promotion came up, which is a full time position as in not term time at all, still 37 hours a week. So I went for it as it is a strp up and got it which meant my income went up and tax credits reduced significantly. So this month, after tax, NI and pension contributions I'm actually only just a tiny little bit better off.

The point I'm making is, I am now only just a little better off now working full time doing 7 more hours a week than I was doing 7 hours less a week and working term time 😐 Plus that's based on a lower april - march 22/23 estimated earnings (due to me earning less until I got my promotion/s in August/September)in comparison to what 23/24 will be, where I'll most likely loose all TC.

Nothing I can do and really just having a general moan because I was hoping to be better off as I'm struggling (like everyone), especially as I don't have a partner to get that second income for the house.

Just for a general guidance, I was earning around £14,500 for 30 hours term time which was topped up in TC. When I got the first promotion I estimated my earnings between April - March would be around £19,000 as it covered both jobs during that period. Then the further promotion I estimated between that period I'd earn around £22,500 which is when the TC reduced significantly. It is annoying having to estimated based on 3 different periods of working income!

Next April I can just give my current jobs annual amount (£28,000) without having to work it out/divide it up as I don't plan on changing jobs!

Not saying I shouldn't work for the income etc but you can see why people don't take on extra hours/go for job promotions!

Absolutely. I use my neighbours as exhibit A. Know every trick in the book...

Plenty of disabled people are perfectly able to (and want to) work. I know what you meant, but disabled doesn't mean incapable.

I have a disability and am able to work in a high pressured high profile job. (albeit thankfully a sedentary one)

I did the same as you many years ago.
I worked many hours over what I was allowed and that money was taken from my benefits.
However the pay off was that when my children were older I, ( as a single parent) was totally self sufficient .
I bought a house, carved a career and had a really good wage.
You are doing the right thing, difficult though it is.
Keep your eye on the prize x

You are doing the right thing @Redwineandroses

You'll always be better off, even slightly, working rather than claiming benefits. Try and look at the bigger picture. You'll get a better work place pension, the next promotion or pay rise, will be all yours, when your dc leave home/become adults, your benefits will reduce again, your salary won't, more access to financial products. This list goes on. I know it feels like a kick in the teeth but it's far better to be financially independent with employment than relying on benefits

I agree that it feels like a kick in the teeth! I’m moving jobs from term time to full time - I don’t claim benefits, but I’ll be earning the same for less holidays with the children.

But - I agree the benefits system, is holding people back - they aren’t any better off working more, they refuse pay rises based on the reduction of income and there’s no reason the payments can’t be matched to wean people off benefits and make work pay.

I also think companies have a responsibility to look after their workforce and pay a living wage.

Good luck! You’ll get your training, and will be fine in a few years.

I have to say since two of the kids started Saturday jobs I’ve become much better off as they don’t ask for £10 here and there and pay their own phone bills etc

And once the final one passes their driving test the lessons cost £30 a week will beall
mine!

the Welfare State was intended to be a safety net not a way of life. Well done on becoming independent and setting a great example to your children. Your tax and NI will now help other people in need .

If you are on tax credits rather than universal credit, then you would most likely be better off on UC. I’m on UC & my hours vary every month between 35 to 55 hours a week & my income doesn’t reduce as much as it did in tax credits when earnings go up. I’m a single Mum & I work every day & am employed & self employed & am definitely better off the more hours I work with UC. I believe the cap will increase next year so even if salary goes up you should still receive UC. I received the 2 £324 payments too.
I think it’s always worth taking extra hours & promotions if available, as you will progress quicker in the long run.

Many women post on here in utter shock when the tax credits, universal credit, child benefit, child maintenance etc all stops when a child gets to a certain age and they've been working 16 hours a week or not at all for over a decade.

Think long term. I'm a single parent and worked full time since my son was 8 months old.

@Redwineandroses not read the full thread. Completely agree though! You do have to be smart. You have been smart as in when your benefits stop you will have this salary to fall back on and it won't be an income shock when it all stops but god the posts that say don't you feel better earning than relying on the system, no sorry not if it's not beneficial! I will get flamed for this and yes I do work but given the choice- work less, receive universal credits, see family more or work more, see family less and break even I know which choice I am making and no I won't be martyr and struggle just to be proud I don't claim! Millions of pounds go unclaimed on benefits, the government have stupid expenses paid from the tax payer and it is a catch 22, you're right there is no incentive to work for nothing more in the present moment. I would try and claim universal credits as they try to make it pay to work.

I see people fuming that they are caught in the middle getting no help as they earn just over the threshold well maybe they should deduct hours and get support and have a work life balance. I know I will get hated for this but it's about surviving, the gov don't give a shit so no I will do what I can to put me in the best situation over pride and as I said yes I do work aswel

Move to universal credit its much better worked out monthly. Than guessing yearly.

Well done on your promotion, that’s really a massive increase in salary and I’m sure you’ve worked hard to get it.

I can see your point but you will personally be better off in the long run. It’s a pity (but maybe I am wrong) there isn’t a simple view or long term term calculator that makes the long term reward more obvious. Because it is very hard to juggle work and kids particularly as a single parent.

I so hear you. It can feel like a trap. In fact, you can end up worse off because you are spending on work clothes and transport and childcare that you probably don't need when you are working less. Plus buying lunches etc because everything is so much more hurried.

To be fair I was always paying tax and NI before whilst on TC, just not as much and have only claimed them since my divorce. Before I had dc I was also tax payer too as I've worked from age 16. Plus I'll be paying tax for the next 25/30 years until I can retire.

So in the long run out of the 50 or so years I'll have worked, only 8 of those years will have been claiming Tax Credits (since my divorce and now) and even then I've paid some tax, and i'll have been a full tax payer for the years outside of that.

When you look at it like that people who moan don't really have much to moan about!

I think a lot of this problem lies with the parents who walk away from their DC and act as if they are no longer their responsibility.

If every separated parent paid the true 50% cost of raising their child, every half of school uniform, school trips, breakfast,lunch, dinner, petrol for school runs, heating the home etc, "single" parents wouldn't need as much support from the government to cover the basic cost of living.

If absent parents stepped up by either having their DC 50% of the time and being financially responsible for them during those hours (childcare etc) or contributing 50% of ALL child-related costs, single parents would be able to work more, need less taxpayer support and the burden of care would ease from one person and be spread across the two people who created the child(ren).

In situations like the OP's, the "drop" in income wouldn't be felt as severely because additional childcare costs would be halved, and sensible adjustments would be made, such as CMS payments would increase with the cost of living etc. (though no, I do not know how this could come into force, just that morally both parents should step up).

Some people talk about single parents and the benefits they receive as if they're a scourge on society and yet the person (usually father) who has walked away, leaving all the caring and financial responsibilities to that parent (or paying the bare minimum) isn't berated/belittled at all.

In short, well done OP for bettering yourself and getting your promotion and sorry that you've not had more support (financially and otherwise) for your DC.

I agree many women do get a shock. OP is correct and I absolutely agree with her.

What is your support network like? If you have worked full time since your baby was 8 months.

I agree to an extent but the simple fact is that being separated parents is much more expensive than living together. Two households to maintain is difficult. It isn't about fault, it is just a fact.

Congratulations on your promotion! It sounds really well deserved.

I empathise completely, OP. I was thinking this exact thing just last night.

I’m a lone parent and am still on maternity leave with my first at the moment. I have an interview next week for a promotion which would see my salary increase by over £6,000pa. The difference in my take home pay after childcare, however, will be just £56pm because of how UC works.

Now, I don’t need anyone to explain to me that the benefits of a higher salary go beyond the pennies in the bank at the end of every month, but, in the here and now (particularly during this most of austere of nows), those pennies occupy my every waking thought. And, when I consider the additional stress that comes along with a promotion, in addition to extra time spent away from my baby, it does make me wonder if it’s worth it. Of course, I know it will be, just as you do, but to return to your original question YANBU at all.

I can understand completely why so many women choose not to make strides to increase their earned income while their children are small because there is, on the face of it at least, no incentive to do so. I worry for the predicament that this will leave so many in once their children are grown up, but I don’t know what the solution is.

Wishing you the very best in your new role. Here’s to hoping that it’s just another stepping stone to the future you hope for and deserve xxx

Agree no point expecting separated parents 50/50 costs as each have their own household to support.

There's no excuse about school holidays? Drop offs/pick ups. Trips it's often one sided so I know what the other poster is saying too.

@Hibye23289 well said.

Im a single parent and on tax credits. I work part time. I also get an enhancement for a child on DLA. I calculated it wasn’t worth me going full time due of the additional cost of travel and childcare and the additional stress that would see me take home the same money at the end of a month. Once they’re both at secondary and I don’t have the childcare to worry about I’ll probably increase my hours - wrap around timings mean I have to travel at a peak time and sit in traffic rather than head into work earlier and miss the traffic. Same at home time. I’m also hoping to get into uni on a doctoral training programme to help me change careers. Thankfully my job isn’t a minimum wage job and I take home from part time what many would take home from full time minimum wage. But it just isn’t worth it when the DC are in primary for me to go full time. I also calculated UC and based on my current situation I’d actually get less money so waiting out the TCs til I’m forced over. If I get onto my uni course on TCs I will get a top up whilst training (income is a minimum wage bursary) but if I was to be on UC I wouldn’t get any top up at all (talking to people currently on the course in that position). But if I can get on and retrain I’d be in a good position for a job at the end of it. If my ex was still in the picture we wouldn’t be entitled to TCs but I’d have the flexibility more to work more hours as well.

Not doing though has an impact on the long term, even if the short term seems it doesn't. When UC ceases for the kids, without this increase now you'd be much worse off. Your pension contributions have increased, and you e got scope for promotions you maybe wouldn't have previously, plus wage increases. I see why you would think this now, but playing the long game, it does make more sense!

It’s not always that easy though. My ex pays what he can when he can. I was the higher earner. I get the top up as the kids live with me as resident parent. He gets a small amount of UC on his income but he’s actually left really skint at the end of the month. He found it unfair that I claim the TCS and the DLA for one child and he gets none of that but had to pay me maintenance as well. I work term time only so there’s no point him taking holiday (unpaid as he’s on a zero hour type contract) to look after the kids half the time when I’m off work anyway. 2 homes to run is expensive. His rent is double my mortgage for the same type of house in the next town. I wouldn’t actually get a mortgage not but the house was bought in my name when I was on a much higher income and there were 2 of us. If the kids had gone to live with him as the resident parent and I was the one paying maintenance and seeing them EOW I’d not be able to afford my current part time salary - although I’d have all that other time to work more hours but as I mentioned in previous post I earn part time what full time minimum wage is. But if I was working full time on minimum wage I’d really struggle being the non resident parent.

I totally see where you're coming from OP, must be frustrating and disheartening. But you're doing the right thing especially for the longer term, well done on the promotions.

@Heartonmysleevee oh thankyou!

Op to add I too was with a financially wreckless husband who actually gambled our house deposit we are talking over 25k not that it is relevant to your post but it is hard trying to provide alone including childcare juggling etc hey ho he still struggles to pay measly amount of maintenance even though he works and lives with his mum but at least he can support England more than his children with a brand spanking new England football shirt