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Son's behaviour- I don't know what to do

31 replies

FurCoatNoNickers · 26/11/2022 22:13

DS is 11 yrs old, Year 7. His behaviour is shocking and DH and I can't take much more. He shouts at us, refuses to comply with simple requests eg. Brush teeth. He's now laying on the sofa arguing with me because I've confiscated his PS4 due to him swearing at us this evening. DH and I do not get any evening. He's always been argumentative and a contrarian, but it has escalated since starting secondary school. How do I cope with this? Any strategies please?

OP posts:
Winter789Mermaid · 26/11/2022 22:21

PDA Society co.uk has some good information on parenting in a different way. Aimed at ND kids it can equally be used for NT kids. Starting secondary is really hard work though. My youngest has just started and they are ASD so it’s doubly hard you have my sympathies.

UniversalTruth · 26/11/2022 22:32

I think the book The Explosive Child might help you. livesinthebalance.org/walking-tour/

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

FurCoatNoNickers · 27/11/2022 09:10

Thank you, I will check out link and book. He's now found his PS4 controller and has gone back on it. I'm dreading the day ahead

OP posts:
Smogtopia · 27/11/2022 09:16

What's the consequence for him now that he's found the controller that you had taken off him?

KylieCharlene · 27/11/2022 09:18

@Winter789Mermaid
Great link.
Going through similar at the moment OP.

Helpmephrasethis · 27/11/2022 09:20

I would investigate any behaviour as a SEN or ND issue on top on any sanctions.

take all electronics - ps4, phone, computer, tablet and out them in the loft.

there will be a massive push back as with any addiction

fresh air once a day

decent diet and sleep

Lots of love and conversations

counselling etc

are all options

Helpmephrasethis · 27/11/2022 09:21

Please don’t assume PDA but somff eg of the strategies for pda are useful regardless of the situation

Notanotherwindow · 27/11/2022 09:50

I'd take the damn thing, sell it and reclaim my living room. And he could stay in his room with a sore backside until he learns some bloody respect.

PermanentTemporary · 27/11/2022 09:55

If you lay down the law about something, you have to follow it through. Take the controller off him again. Observe the reaction as a phenomenon you just have to get through. Don't talk about it much. Think about what you can do that's positive today - can you get outside? I used to refer to ds's complaints about going for a walk as his 'statutory moaning' - we just had to get through it before we could go. I used to pick somewhere i wanted to go myself so that it was worth the boredom of getting through the whinging. I wish I'dhad as many friends with dogs back then, we might have borrowed a dig for a walk. The moaning stops eventually. Make sure that as soon as he is talking normally, or even just quiet, praise him immediately for being fun to be with. Get moving.

BertieBotts · 27/11/2022 10:05

Just for info here, you will get loads of opposite leaning advice. Some will say it's a strictness issue and you have been too lax, so need watertight boundaries and a hierarchy of consequences for breaking them. Almost like boot camp in the short term with gradual loosening up of the rules once he's behaving in the expected way. The idea behind this is that it is very clear and expectations are set out and small achievable improvements should be rewarded so that there is a clear path which is accessible to him.

Others will say actually rigid boundaries and escalating punishments are causing/exacerbating the issue, and you need to go totally the opposite way, finding a way through to communicate. This is where the PDA, Visible Child and Explosive Child / Ross Greene and Mona Delahooke ideologies come in.

You can't do both because they are completely opposite in ideology, and it will be confusing if you're consuming an entire thread where people are weighing in from both sides assuming that they are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

You should instead pick one and stick to it for at least a trial period of a few months. If you're going to try and do communication/root of behaviour then I would strongly recommend the resources by Ross Greene and Mona Delahooke (I am not personally a fan of Visible Child/Robin Einzig, but some people really like her) because I think they are the best and based on actual solid evidence/experience with challenging behavioural issues.

I don't know good resources for the other option - I'll lay my cards on the table, I don't think being stricter helps, particularly in the teen years/particularly when you're already struggling, I think it exacerbates the issue, and I think that children who are acting out are usually struggling with whatever expectations are already being placed on them, feeling misunderstood and persecuted (even though this is not the adults' intention). It can also be very hard to have full control over teenagers which can make some of the ideas about boundaries and consequences very difficult to actually enact. You don't really have this issue yet at 11, but it's worth bearing in mind for the future. Unless you're dealing with a situation where for whatever reason a child has never actually had clear boundaries and expectations, you probably don't need more of them if they aren't working in the first place, you probably need less.

From what I've seen on MN and other places, it more often tends to be people who don't have experience of children with challenging behaviour who suggest the first option. This is (IMO) because a milder version (ie, standard boundaries, consequences, routines and predictability) have always worked for their children and so they make an assumption that this is what causes good behaviour, so if children are acting up it is because they have not experienced enough of this and that more will help. It's a reasonable enough assumption, but it might not help if you have a child who is reactive for whatever reason to the usual boundaries and consequences. IME, people who recommend the "backing off and looking for communication/root cause" tend to be recommending it because they have experienced dramatic change in a child's behaviour from using these kinds of methods, not just in a theoretical sense or with children who aren't expressing challenging behaviour. IME, persistent challenging behaviour is a sign that something isn't working, and it can often be the typical behavioural methods feeding into this.

I might be wrong. Maybe there are children who have been helped by a stricter approach, and possibly at 11, it would be easier to actually have full control over everything so it might be easier to make this approach work, or you might perhaps recognise that you have been a bit haphazard previously and feel that clearer communication about behaviour might nip things in the bud. I don't mean to suggest that this approach could never work. But whichever way you go, I just thought it might be useful to understand why there are two conflicting ideologies and why a lot of advice you get in your situation will be difficult to reconcile, because people are often coming from one place or the other and tend to feel dismissive of the opposite approach.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/11/2022 10:09

@BertieBotts totally agree!

My Dd was’difficult’ sanctions made her worse. Removing tech was the worst thing of all. She was diagnosed as ASD at 16…..

Squiblet · 27/11/2022 10:16

Excellent post from @BertieBotts .

People get so caught up in these issues, emotionally. They seem to feel as though, if someone comes on a thread and recommends doing the opposite of what they did, that equates to saying: "you've failed your child". And they get all defensive.

When really, every child is different, every family is different and there's no course of action that is 100% guaranteed to be right.

I haven't been in your situation, OP (yet!) but I suspect you might get somewhere by listening to your son, if he can be persuaded to open up. Good luck, it sounds really tough 💐

Comedycook · 27/11/2022 10:20

I wouldn't be so quick to assume special needs. My Ds became pretty obnoxious at that age! Quite rude with a lot of backchat and attitude. He's 14 now... slightly better and we have glimpses of pleasantness! He's entering the teenage years op... buckle up. It can be really tough.

Mischance · 27/11/2022 10:20

The fact that you are arguing is not helpful.

Make your decision about sanctions where needed - see them through - ignore his complaints. Just do not engage with him once your decision is made. Let him moan - he can only argue if he is getting a response from you.

Also it is 100% essential that you and your OH pull together on sanctions and back each other up. If he sees a chink in the armour he will relentlessly prise it apart somehow.

UniversalTruth · 27/11/2022 13:09

Agree with @BertieBotts. Sorry I didn't have the energy yesterday to put more info in.

I also think you need to pick a technique and stick to it, and I would also be involving the child of possible, in a conversation about how you don't want home life to be so argumentative, and you want to make some changes.

I recommended The Explosive Child as I think it really helped move me from "why won't DS do what I want him to do" to "what's stopping DS do what we need to do" .

Also agree that tough boundaries tend to be recommended by people who haven't experienced this. I thought the more "textbook", boundary driven, consistent parenting you did, the better behaved the child. Until I met DS2.

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 27/11/2022 13:29

I have bookmarked @BertieBotts post. That is so insightful. Yes, I thought rules and discipline would see me through until DS arrived.
@BertieBotts you once made an amazing post about wanting your kid to do the right thing because it was right and not because he was being frogmarched every step of the way to good behaviour. I am paraphrasing because I didn't bookmark it. Any idea what you said?!

GardenNice · 27/11/2022 13:38

It sounds like your son needs a damn good listening to.

AlwaysFullOfQuestions22 · 27/11/2022 13:42

Take the controls back. Remove PlayStation!

I had this with ds. He soon learnt!

Rogue1001MNer · 27/11/2022 13:54

Agree with several others.

@BertieBotts the best post I've ever read on here on this kind of theme.
I hope it gets remembered and quoted in the future when this kind of topic comes up again.
Which it will!

Mischance · 27/11/2022 14:00

I do not think that strictness is necessary - but clarity is.

Ivyy · 27/11/2022 14:38

@BertieBotts fantastic advice, I come from the ASD and PDA side of things as a parent, and have a dd who was totally overwhelmed with anxiety starting secondary school, her behaviour at home got much worse. Not suggesting your ds is ND op, but with some children their anxiety levels influence behaviour and starting secondary is a big change. Several of dd's friends who are NT also struggled and it was a mixed bag, boys as well as girls, different schools and different personalities. I can't help making a connection between the recent change in behaviour and what op says about it coinciding with starting secondary schooll.
Regardless of whether a child is NT or has a PDA diagnosis, the info and advice from the PDA society website can be really helpful. It's worth a read op, helps you see more from the child's point of view and that they can be overwhelmed and scared, which doesn't necessarily come across when they're angry and shouting at you! Have you sat down and talked / listened to ds oo? It's a funny in between age but I found dd could put feelings into words and she also recognised she was behaving in an angry, defiant way and genuinely felt upset about it, she needed our help.
Agree with others it's not always a case of simply being stricter and taking devices a way. That might work with some kids but we're all different and different approaches work for different parents and kids.

BobbyBobbyBobby · 27/11/2022 14:47

Notanotherwindow · 27/11/2022 09:50

I'd take the damn thing, sell it and reclaim my living room. And he could stay in his room with a sore backside until he learns some bloody respect.

This.

BertieBotts · 27/11/2022 15:12

Ah thank you all - I honestly don't want to put down an approach that simply doesn't work for me, I just get frustrated a lot on these kinds of posts because many people do write about stronger boundaries/better routine etc fixing everything and I just don't think that's the case for a lot of families struggling with difficult behaviour.

Usually I'm too late Grin and I have to leave it or I get too frustrated. Or it devolves into arguments about which approach is correct, which isn't usually helpful to the OP who has to pick an approach to use IRL anyway.

No idea what I said about self motivation in the past sorry, I have posted about non-punitive parenting a lot but that's probably over the last 13 years in total! I never ever name change though. It might have been about whether or not to insist on an apology? When DS1 was little it was one of the common parenting debates on MN and my approach was to point out that <person> was upset and give him the information that an apology is a way to express that he is sad about having upset them, rather than it being about making things better or just something that you automatically do.

I'm not so hard line now - I don't think it's necessarily destroying their empathy to insist that they apologise, and recognise that automatic social conventions like sorry, thank you, excuse me etc can actually be useful rather than just being insincere. I had a tendency to overthink and I don't see parenting as being so black and shite any more. (Er.. I meant black and white but I might just leave that typo!) But I do still lean to the side of communication/curiosity over consequences. Also agree that whichever way you lean, positive connection and clear communication are SO important. You can't expect them to magically know what you want, and that might mean checking that your language/explanation/etc is clear and consistent as well as age appropriate. There is no point doing lots of long involved explanations to a toddler for instance. But equally, don't expect that a teenager or preteen knows everything that an adult knows. They can seem like mini adults, but there is a lot of stuff they simply haven't done before or haven't developed systems for yet.

DS1 (14) is a lovely teen so far so anecdotally at least, the communicative approach has helped us. It does definitely seem to have built a foundation and skills that we use regularly.

lovenotwar149 · 27/11/2022 15:13

Boundaries boundaries boundaries!!!!

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