If you have a yr5 or yr6 DD how often have they been threatened?

[SecondaryPreparation]

My DD is in Yr 5. I've had to keep her off once this year because three boys in her class threatened to beat her up if she didn't hand something over to them and I said she didn't have to go back until I'd spoken to the school. Her friend was punched by one of the boys, also for not handing over what they were playing with at break time.

Yesterday another girl in her class got beaten up by two boys (one was in the three who threatened DD) whilst another stood by.

One of those two boys is the one who was advising the girls which of them had to lose weight and how to do it last year. Also commenting on things like DD's leg hair.

Agression in PE was an issue last year, this year's teacher is managing this by carefully choosing which activities they do in class e.g. she won't let them play football or hockey. (This was told to me by the teacher, it's not something I've heard 2nd hand from DD)

Is this part and parcel of primary school these days?

No. It sounds like there is a boy, or perhaps boys, with behavioural problems who is creating a toxic dynamic. From what you say about his comments re hair, weight it sounds like he is being exposed to toxicity himself outside of school, presumably at home.

I was the shy hairy kid who got teased for being weird and hairy at that age but this would never have happened at my school. Makes you wonder who Tf is raising these demon children. Sorry I don't have any advice op I'd saying move schools but another school may be worse

Yr7 and Yr5 girls... never.

Weve had some issue with misogyny (i.e. girls can't play football and rugby comments) but no violence in or out of school.

Unfortunately bullies do exist, so the school needs to protect your DD and her friends better.

Nope, not normal at all. The school need to sort this out.

Weve had some issue with misogyny (i.e. girls can't play football and rugby comments)
This has been pretty constant since Yr1. Most of the girls don't even bother to try to join in any more. It seems break times when they're allowed to play football end up in a Yr5. Vs Yr 6 fist fight which has to be broken up by staff, football gets banned for the rest of the week, rinse and repeat.

@CornedBeef451 @PuttingDownRoots how would you expect school to deal with it. Currently they are saying they will "talk to the boys concerned". Oh and that there aren't allowed to be secrets at school, so if the boys ask what the girls are doing/drawing, they have to hand it over

@Palmfrond I'm sure that will be a great comfort to DD and her friends, who are starting to refuse to go to school...

TBH, id move schools. This seems to be an ongoing issue and doesn't seem to be been dealt with.

If moving schools is not an option, this really needs to be escalated to the head. There have been at least 2 incidents of threatening behaviour and a history of aggression in the class. These boys sound like they need support in the playground and around appropriate play and interactions. Are some of them ND? If so they are been failed as really they should have support to help them with their interactions and aggressive behavior.

There are solutions. I used to work in a school and we had a challenging class like this. There were a lot of emotional and social needs as well as a few students with undiagnosed SEN and the aggression was a symptom of unmet needs in this class and it led to a lot of aggression and violent playground behavior. 2 ECT teachers over 2 years struggled until a very experienced teacher took over and demanded SLT take notice. She told parents to complain to the head everytime something happened. This led to 2 TAs redeployed to the class at certain trigger points (transition/PE/ Playtime), learning mentor out at playtime and working on appropriate play and ways to deal with disagreements. Removal of football (was a massive trigger) and then reintroduced as a supervised by SLT activity. TAs got training on playground games and these playground games were encouraged.

Ultimately the class was split in half for the mornings and a non teaching member of SLT took one half and the teacher had the other half with 1 TA each. They also had separate playtime so one class went out with the infants at playtime and the other went out with the juniors. This meant that the main group of aggressors was split up and new friendships were encouraged. It also allowed more intensive work at playtime with the learning mentor.

This was back in the late 2000s when staffing was plentiful. Not sure if a solution like that could happen today as school staffing is on its arse. Therefore I would encourage a move.

It's not normal. Is changing school an option?

Weve had some issue with misogyny (i.e. girls can't play football and rugby comments)

I don't think this is misogyny as such - or, more specifically, I don't think that generally girls are at more of a disadvantage in this area ime. It's a problem for both sexes. My eldest was mercilessly mocked (by girls) for joining the netball team, which he only managed after initial outright refusal.

I would also move schools. School should be all over this sort of thing before it escalates this far. Your daughters are unsafe.

@Beamur no, it isn't. There is only one school nearby and only one class (21) in the year group.

@Peoplewatcheswithcoffee thanks, that's a really helpful post. As far as I'm aware none of them are ND, certainly none of them have any obvious TA support.

She told parents to complain to the head everytime something happened.
I've told the other mum to do this now, and I most definitely will if anything happens or DD is threatened again.

Never. This isn't normal and if the school isn't dealing I would complain to the governors.

Y6 - Never threatened. And this in an urban south London primary with a very mixed demographic.

In year 5 there were a few failings out between the girls but that seems to have blown over for now. Never threatening behaviour or anything physical though.

The school take anything like that very seriously and have zero tolerance for ‘boys will be boys’ type assumptions.

Can you and the other parents write in detail to the school governors? You have to complain in writing, nor just a chat at the door with the teacher. Is there a way to complain and trigger an Ofsted review? Has there been an Ofsted check lately?

My dd is in Y4 mixed school, we have never had any issues remotely like the ones you describe. Your school sounds like the kids run it. The bullies I mean.

When I had a much lighter bullying/friendship group issue I was told by another parent to write to the school governors as they are obliged to acknowledge and act on it.

It sounds horrendous. Are they huge year groups?

I have a year 7 girl. Never. There is a something toxic about those kids or the school isn't handling this properly.

Only happened from one boy. Kept barging into DD, pushing into queues in front of her and once actually picked a chair up and tried to hit her with it.

The lad was a LOT bigger than my DD but what he didnt know was my daughter, despite her size trains 5 days per week and is as strong as it gets. Something she goes to great lengths to hide at school.

I told her she had to deal with it otherwise it was going to continue. Next day i get told that this boy had barged past my daughter in the queue for lunch. My daughter had grabbed his the backpack he was wearing, pulled it and swung him around onto his arse. Much to everyones amusement. This was witnessed by everyone, teachers and dinner staff included. Not a word was said to my daughter and boy never bothered her again.

Not something every girl is capable of i appreciate.

Anecdotally we are hearing about places being found in already full schools for children who need to move due to being bullied.

@Peoplewatcheswithcoffee 's post is quite inspirational but shows up just how desperate things are now. There's never a spare classroom for a class to be split into, never a spare TA. My son did years in mainstream without ever having somewhere safe to go at both lunch and break, all for want of one classroom or one TA being made available for vulnerable students. These interventions can do so much to make school bearable for kids but budgets say no. I remember the HT of our new secondary school saying students need to feel safe in order to learn well. At the time it felt kind of obvious, but also good to hear. Now apparently we have given up on that as if it's some sort of luxury.

In which case, my advice is to report, in writing, every single incident and get any other families similarly affected to do so.
Tell your DD to do the same. Ignore any messages about not snitching. These are tactics by bullies to silence you.
Tessa Sanderson well done your DD. Sometimes bullies back off sharpish when they get pushback.
Coach your DD to be loud and defensive and not be passive when this boy harasses her. Shout and get attention from the TA or teacher. Make a fuss basically.

@TwinklingStarlight it absolutely breaks my heart the current state of schools. I left teaching for health reasons a few years ago.

I may be baised but the school I worked at used to be a wonderful school. It had an extremely experienced SLT who knew funding streams well, had no fear of ofsted, cared about the children and had a great relationship with the PTA who fundraised for lovely extra things like the playground games training and equipment, all now sadly retired. It is no longer the same place, became an academy, managed out all it's experienced (expensive) staff, got rid of all the "unnecessary" staff (bye bye 2 amazing learning mentors, parent support officer etc) and the executive head alienated it's PTA.

Never with Dd1 or 2. I also used to work in schools in quite tough areas of London and never had this.

I have had experience of schools being ineffectual about bullying with Dd1 which only got resolved once it was established that multiple parents had complained about one child and so the wider pattern of behaviour and groups of parents sticking together in making complaints meant that it was taken more seriously. Speaking to other parents and going as a group to the Head/Governor's to complain is an option.

If they are over 10 they are above the age of criminal responsibility and Police can be involved for threats of violence or actual violence. This might be an avenue to go down especially for the parent whose child was beaten up.

There is a big push on dealing with child on child abuse in schools at the moment following an Ofsted review. Drop this into the complaint to the school, you can complain to both DfE and Ofsted in some circumstances. Let them know that you will be doing this if their response to your complaint is unsatisfactory.

www.gov.uk/complain-about-school/state-schools

My eldest dd is in year 5 and has never been bullied or threatened, none of my friend with dc in other local primaries have had problems either.

Our school does push kindness and respect a lot, the children can win awards and treats for kind behaviour as well as academia.

Follow the Complaints Policy on the school website.

My DS was threatened and bullied in Y6, so it isn't always targeted at girls, but he was one of the quieter boys so probably viewed as weak and easy target.

Report, report, report and escalate following the above policy if nothing is sorted by the teacher. Ask how they are safeguarding your child, can refer to Keeping Children Safe in Education and child on child abuse, also make reference to their behaviour policy.

Football between Yr5 and Yr 6 descended into a fight again today according to DD. She said her teacher is saying they are considering a complete football ban at break times.

DS's teacher told his class off and said the teachers are not there to ref football matches at break time and they have to start to behave!

DD says they already have a ref from each class but no one listens and then the fights start.

No its sounds like the school has 3 out of control boys who they need to get a handle on
Whats the schools bullying policy ?