My 8 year old is still awake

[Daisychainsandglitter]

I am feeling so frustrated with her and tired. She has ASD and insists that we sit with her while she falls asleep which we do.
Usually she goes to bed at around 9pm any earlier and it's a complete waste of time sitting with her.
Tonight and last night she is still awake. I've sat with her twice for half an hour at a time and my husband sat with her 8.30-9.15 and yet here we are.
She cannot seem to understand that we are tired, we've tried everything from ignoring her which has resulted in her screaming and waking her younger sister. She's read loads of books, played on her iPad as we've said that we need to sleep.
She says she's not tired and the only thing that is calming her is by me sitting with her again for a third time while she is not going to sleep. Feeling so irritated with her at the moment and at a loss as to what to do.
By the way, I raised issues with her sleep to the autism team over a year ago and was given a sleep diary to fill out. Never had a response from the team and impossible to get through. I just want to go to sleep!!!

Can't put a camp bed down next to her either as she insists on sleeping with all the lights on.

I know the feeling and you have all my sympathy. It's so frustrating when you don't get any kind of time to yourself.

Dd is now 10 and asd. She has only just starting sleeping (occasionally) before 11. Some nights she still can't sleep until midnight. She gets really upset about it and that makes it worse.

Only in the last 6 months is she ok with me not being in her room. I have slowly (over the 10 years it feels like!) got her accepting me leaving for 'reasons' such as putting the washing away, putting my pjs on etc. all jobs upstairs but not in her room. She can now accept me hanging around in my room and often now is ok with me going downstairs. Though she's not yet able to be comfortable with no one up at all ( can be dh in his office though).

Have you tried a baby monitor so she knows you can hear her? Some are two way do you can also talk to her but my dd doesn't like that as she's worried it will make her jump.

ASMR videos on YouTube can distract my dd sometimes and make her sleepier. Or an audiobook.

Dd hates the 'pressure' of 'time to go to sleep'. So we now just say it's time to rest in bed. She can listen to an audiobook, music, a guided sleep meditation, play with her soft toys, or look at a book.

If I get even a little 'snappy' or force something that she doesn't want/can't deal with, the whole situation is made so much worse and the pressure and stress/anxiety go through the roof. My dd needs to feel totally relaxed and de-stressed. So leaving her when she's not ready would totally make sleep come much later (and sometimes, when I'm tired I do get frustrated. Though it's counterproductive). I'd stop with the leaving her for now until it's done when she's ready to be honest.

Have you tried a bedtime timetable/ schedule. Mine likes to devise and write her own. So with input from me we have, in the past, used that too.

My dd is demand avoidant and we very much have things that work for a while on and off, and then totally don't. So we've had to evolve ideas. Or rotate them. Currently she looks at a book and cycles that with counting to a certain number with her eyes closed, then, if still awake, reading again for a short time.

Good luck anyway! (Written from dd's bed as if she wakes in the night I jump in bed with her as it's the quickest and easiest way for us both to get back to sleep)

@MissShapesMissStakes thank you so much for your reply. It's nice to have someone who understands. I just was at the end of my tether last night and felt so tired.
There are some really good ideas you've given me so thank you.
I think we'll definitely get her to write down a bedtime routine and try the ASMR videos. DD is also demand avoidant and find that things that worked previously stop working after awhile.
Maybe we'll set up a camp bed in her room so at least we can lay down even if she's not asleep.
The frustrating thing last night was that every time we left her and thought she was asleep she wasn't quite and then the whole process could start again.
I can see how anxious the situation makes her which must be horrible for her.
Thanks once again for all your advice.

OP I don't know if it's a ND related issue but with one of my ND son's we've been with him every night as he falls asleep and he's way older than your daughter! It'd the only way he could and can sleep and its very important to him, we made peace with it long ago and even enjoy it now, using it as important bonding time. He's not scared, he just neds that connection and fair enough - adults do, too The upshot is that he's always well rested, sleeps great, always gets to sleep at a very decent time, too. My other son never needed it.

Not sure if that helps, sorry, just our experience!

We do have a half hour routine btw that we always do which is a video and some reading, and a little talk, and that is part of an agreement that it always happens and that he sleeps with lights off after that, I then stay until he falls asleep (I often just doze off and wake up half hour later and he's asleep). Not sure if any of that might work with your DD.

Dd10 has ASD and we co sleep ! It's the only way to get any sleep as if I don't I end up with horrific migraines. I'm a single mum so it's easier though, it just works for us. Not sure how long it can go on for though as she hogs the whole bed now she is so big !

It's certainly a ND thing. I know a lot of autistic children and adults with sleep issues.

Yes our bedtimes got easier once we accepted that if she wakes in the night I need to stay in her room. We bought her a double bed then as for years I would sleep on her floor (had a pull out mattress but always forgot to do it in my half-asleep state). I think a lot of the breakthroughs we had with her sleep were when we just relaxed about bedtime. Which is hard, because we all need time on our own, and dd is full on in the daytime and was at night too.

You could write a few options down for your daughter and let her choose what to try? That way if something isn't working after a few days, try something else on the list. But I would say that it would be best to try the new routines with full acceptance to start that you'll be there throughout. But then start incorporating tiny 'jobs' in like 'oh I just need to go and clean my teeth, then I'll come back'. And do come back. It's the jobs with a natural end that she will know finish after a small time and you'll be back. And maybe take in a book for you, or work, or take in an eye mask and lie down, so you are there if needed, but not a huge part of hands on things eventually?

Demand avoidance keeps us on our toes doesn't it?!

Have you tried melatonin, OP? Would she take that?

My son is suspected adhd (we are waiting for an assessment) and our GP recommended it. You can buy it online from European websites.

I've thought about melatonin before but unfortunately she has a limited diet and it's pretty traumatic getting her to take calpol when she's ill so I think we would really struggle.
I've been reflecting on the last couple of nights and am determined to stay calm tonight although desperate to get to sleep at a reasonable time. DH has gone to bed with a migraine caused from tiredness so I am on my own tonight.
I asked her whether she wanted to make a bedtime routine which was met with an emphatic no which I was surprised with as she loves her visual timetable at school.
I am going to get the camp bed out next to her so I can lay down and snooze if need be although will be borrowing DD2's eye mask as DD1 insists on sleeping with all the lights on.
She's agreed enthusiastically to watch miniature cooking on her iPad before she goes to bed which I think is a form of ASMR which she likes.
I was reflecting on my behaviour towards her last night and I definitely made it worse by getting frustrated as it made her even more anxious. I totally agree with a previous comment saying that acceptance and to stay calm is the best course of action.
She seems full of beans today and seems unaffected by the lack of sleep. I don't know how she keeps going. Wishing everyone on this thread a peaceful night and thanks again for the advice.

I hope you had an ok bedtime.

My dd has a new thing on tomorrow morning so took ages to get to sleep and got really stressed out, upset and panicky that she wasn't going to sleep. Got there eventually (11.30). It was hard to keep it all relaxed because I'm not very well at the moment and dh is having some health issues so I really wanted some time to talk to him without little listening ears.

I meant to say, OP, that what also helped us is to move her bedtime to later. It just meant less time for her to be in bed stressing out about not being asleep. She can play quietly in her room and we try for in bed by 10. Saying that, her bedtime routine is currently incredibly long winded so that often takes up all the time.

It’s probably not helping her sleep the fact that all the lights are on, the brain relies on signals from the environment to regulate it’s sleep/ wake cycle. Light is a big thing that regulates this. Maybe look at getting some fairy lights, a bedroom lamp, night light, very low watt bulb (maybe change the bulb discreetly when she’s not around so it doesn’t cause anxiety) for the main light in her room so the light is still adequate but dim enough to promote sleep.

Also maybe try some melatonin gummies, could you perhaps just tell her that they are a vitamin supplement so it won’t cause added anxiety about sleep? Or maybe see the GP and see if they can prescribe a sleep aid for her, like just as a temporary measure to try to get her into a good sleep routine?

Hope things improve OP, lack of sleep is miserable 🤞🏻

oh that sounds so difficult for you whilst you and your DH are unwell so well done for keeping calm and I'm glad you got there in the end!
I've had some great advice on this thread so just wanted to thank everyone for their advice and say how grateful I am.
Wishing everyone on this thread with poor sleepers all the best and fingers crossed for a good nights sleep 😴

Melatonin was our solution. Prescribed now he's diagnosed with asd and adhd but we just bought it before. We grind it up and put it in his hot chocolate just before bath time (with lavender drops in bath and on pillow), story and bed, then sleep stories on his toomie thing or cds. Still not 100% perfect, but 5 nights out of 7 we get him asleep by 9 til 5am.

A big pregnancy pillow was a game changer for DD, she's cosy and 'nested' and finds it much easier to get to sleep.

Have you tried a weighted blanket ?

Oh good point, ds has two weighted blankets, they stop him thrashing around so much.

Yes DD has a weighted blanket and loves it!

On melatonin - you can get really tiny tablets now. I know it may still not work but might be worth trying - they are miniscule. I think probably easier than the liquid which taste horrible unless you can get a specific prescription. Also slow release which are meant to help stay asleep I think .

The other thing - which tbh no idea if it actually makes a difference - is we have the lumie bug light which only emits red light which is meant to be better for sleep. It may be too dull for her though.

We have a set bed time routine. We also have a visual routine on the wall. After story we go down stairs and dd can come in at 615. Next morning ( He has a clock)

Same for my ASD son aged 8

what really helps him is ear plugs and an eye mask. Helps him shut out the world and just relax and drift off. It’s made a big difference to us.

You wouldn't believe it but my DD also insists on sleeping in ear defenders. I often wonder how she is comfortable sleeping in them but it seems to work for her.
I am definitely going to investigate melatonin.

Are @MNHQ hiding any post mentioning melatonin? They hid my description of the ways we sorted out my preteen's lifelong sleep struggles on another thread a few days ago too 🤨

Yes perhaps- a PP post was hidden earlier which didn't contain anything controversial as far as I could tell!