List of causes of Death from 1632

[Peteryougit]

I find this sort of thing really interesting. I’m sorry, I don’t have a direct link so I don’t know which region it’s from - l hope the photo attached okay.

”Rising of the lights” - any ideas?

Are you sure?

My dentist gave me several doses of general anaesthetic from about '79 to '81 to get some of my baby teeth out and I am pretty confident my friends didn't have their appendixes and tonsils out, strapped down to a table.

100% sure, I've seen my hospital notes with the reports in.

Older children were given anaesthetic because they were older and therefore more aware/their brains were more developed but it was generally believed that infants couldn't properly feel pain until they were 12 and 18 months old as their brains hadn't developed enough yet.

I was given a muscle relaxant and that was it. I don't remember any of it although as a child I was very frightened of hospitals, doctors, and any sort of procedure that I anticipated might hurt. I remember having to be physically pinned down for vaccinations because I would fight the adults in the room so I guess some part of me remembered.

@Peteryougit I'm so sorry your dad gets upset like that. It’s a horrible and distressing disease for everyone. I hope he's able to feel reassured when you comfort him.

Dropsy was swelling of the extremities - ankles, fingers etc. In the worse stages you would also get fluid filling the abdomen. Often you'd also get fluid on the lungs too, but since they didn't really have stethoscopes in those days, they'd notice the swollen ankles long before they heard anything odd in the chest.

Usually it was associated with heart failure, but it also happens with protein deficiency and certain vitamin deficiencies.

I think part of the reason that it used to be so common, and that even children died with dropsy (but not OF dropsy, it's a symptom rather than the root cause!) is that scarlet fever used to be very common. That could lead to rheumatic fever, which often caused damage to the heart valves. Damage to the the heart valves can mean that the heart no longer pumps efficiently and you can get a fluid backlog, showing as ankle swelling (And the rest).

I remember reading articles arguing that babies could feel pain. Apparently because they froze rather than cried, it was thought they were not feeling pain.

My mum said they were told it was dangerous to anaesthetise babies too, that the drugs used weren't safe for them.

Babies and small children not being anaesthetised for surgery is possibly the worst thing I’ve read on this thread 😞

@SparkyBlue

that would have been less than 100 years ago as he went to school with my FIL.

^

Lord above, tell us more! Does your FIL remember him well? Apparently when he arrived in Limerick he had an American accent?

Isn’t there a part in the book/film of Angela’s Ashes where he loses his virginity to a
girl with TB who later dies. Years ago since I read it!

Yes, that's right. 'The Excitement'!

Yes, deeply upsetting.

I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone

If its any consolation, that field has come a long way nowadays. DD had a minor op and the focus was very much on her being relaxed and pain free, she had a pre-med before going to theatre, was definitely anaesthetised, given local anaesthetic into the affected area and pain relief before she woke up so that she'd wake up pain-free, and I was with her the whole time excluding the hour she was actually in the theatre. We know better these days.

I don't even understand how they thought babies don't need an anaesthetic. They obviously do experience pain as they cry when hurt

I think people also forget just how dangerous the risks from general anaesthesia are, how how much more dangerous those risks were until comparatively recently. The risks being particularly high for infants and small children.

@mackthepony he was much friendlier with one of the brothers but took the line like many locals who knew them that they were by comparison to most quite well off. It was a particularly deprived area and they always had good boots etc.

Interesting @SparkyBlue ! I had heard they were perhaps not as poverty stricken as depicted in the books but my Dad (in his late 70’s from Southern Ireland) says some kids at his school used to come with cut out bicycle tyres strapped to their feet as makeshift shoes and some families did experience that level of poverty in the late 40’s and early 50’s. Guess he’s just used a bit of artistic license on his observations.

I remember reading somewhere about a little embellishment being added to the Angela's Ashes books.

Though the part where he destroys the debt collector's records, after finding her dead, so the debts can't be collected still, is a common fictional theme.

Yeah there's a definite local divide about the book lol. @GettinHyggeWithIt 100% that level of poverty existed it's openly spoken about. Most working class people over the age of 70 remember it.

Since we are on the topic of books, I have found this thread rather interesting, is there any recommendations for any books that have a little of medical history? I've not really read any history books, or medical books other than This is going to hurt - Adam kay 😂

It’s scrofula, a form of TB which affects the skin.
it was called the Kings Evil because it was believed that being touched by the reigning monarch would cure it.

Gosh that is heartbreaking

you could buy ‘liver and lights’ as pet food in the 1950’s and 60’s. The lights were obviously lungs, they were pale, and spongy. I could go into more detail, but I’ll hold myself back.

I’m afraid my grandfather’s dog loved them

@IVFGotThis05 can't give any recommendations myself, but a quick Google throws up a few options that look quite good:

Blood and Guts: A Short History of Medicine by Roy Porter
The History of Medicine: A Very Short Introduction by William Bynum

Also, this looks very interesting: Unwell Women: A Journey Through Medicine and Myth in a Man-Made World by Elinor Cleghorn

@CaveMum Thanks, I'll have a little look :)