Is it ASD that frequently?

[EverybodyWakeUp]

And if so, why is this the case? It seems that in modern society we're heading towards so many diagnosis of ASD, that we might have to change our thinking and perhaps being neurotypical is not necessarily the norm?

Are there other things that explain traits/symptoms more accurately, like the way our society is, our education system, life pressures, etc?

I hope I am not offending, truly not my intention. I really want to understand more. I am a true supporter of diversity but I feel puzzled that some forms of ASD, say what used to be Aspergers, can be classed as a disability.

If my post offends it truly is because I haven't explained myself properly and I apologise in advance. Any good articles/websites/books on this would be welcome.

@Deguster MN’ers use Aspie to convey that their DC has the “correct” type of autism, the middle class, clever, Sheldon type. Not the shit-smearing, violent, causing-havoc-in-public type. It’s utterly meaningless and ablist in itself.

Nope. I have an Aspie (and I will use that term as that’s what they want me to use). When they were diagnosed, Aspergers was the diagnosis they came under in the DM at the time. So they lived with their diagnosis, identified with it and embraced it for all of their youth/formative years. Then someone comes along and changes the DM and wipes out their identity and tells them they now have autism and must refer to themselves as ASD for fear of upsetting people like yourself. This does not sit well with them, not because there is any right/wrong form of autism but because someone has now ripped away an identity that they have used for their lifetime to understand and accept why they are different. But you spin your narrative to suit yourself.

I know LOADS of older adults who I think are probably neurodivergent (ASD or ADHD) but have never been assessed or diagnosed. They've obviously managed to get through life without too much trouble and would therefore not be classed as having a disability.
However, a diagnosis can be really helpful because a lot of the time people are struggling internally. Having that diagnosis can mean you understand yourself better and give yourself a break.

My DS is autistic and dyspraxic and struggles with almost everything you can think of so I would definitely say he is disabled.

I don't think there is a one size fits all description of neurodiversity.

One thing I would say is that there is a rise in people self diagnosing due to lots of social media awareness on sites like TikTok etc. Not saying this is 100% a bad thing, but to have a true diagnosis as an adult you are probably looking at at least a year on a waiting list plus a lot of assessments and doctors do not just hand out diagnoses willy nilly.

@ForTheLoveOfSleep You are forgetting that the autism diagnosis is explaining the neuro-type, not any learning difficulty/disability or co-morbid conditions. Introducing sub-categories so each autistic person is defined by their comorbidities or lack there of, may be less confusing for you, but it did lead to discrimination for all parts of the spectrum and meant that the co-morbidities were not diagnosed as they were considered just a part of that particular autism, rather than a separate condition. Until very recently you could not have a diagnosis for ASD and ADHD, we now know that ADHD is the most common co-morbid condition with ASD. It was all extremely unhelpful and things need to move on, even if it seems confusing for a while.

*But he went on to say that, in his opinion, around 50% of people who have been diagnosed with anxiety actually have ADHD.

So, think about that for a moment… the amount of people of anti-depressants (which are prescribed for anxiety as well) that do not work. Who would benefit from different medication.

Think about the amount of adults who are diagnosed with depression, who feel like they are failing at life and don’t know what it wrong with them. On anti-depressants that do not work. Having CBT that does not change the way they think. They are actually autistic though, they just don’t know it.*

I'm pretty sure I have inattentive ADHD.
I've been on antidepressants for over 10 years and every time I try to come off, the anxious feelings I've had since I was a child return.

I've had CBT and it just does nothing.

I've been reluctant to approach the GP about the ADHD because I feel that they may think I'm jumping on the diagnosis "bandwagon".

I have child on the spectrum and one potentially with Aspergers . I also have a few family meninges who work in tej school system and the nhs within the mental health area ( psychologist, psychiatrists) . They all seem adamant that it’s a mix , yes diagnosis are now “ easier “ ( we all know not as easy as some might think ) but they also believe there has been a significant increase in non NT children .
Im nit agreeing with this but I’ve read recently about a theory where autism being the next state if evolution .

Far more people are diagnosed as autistic than used to be the case. There are two reasons for this:
(1) more cases exist, and
(2) society is better at diagnosis.

The first question, of why more cases exist, is not examined often enough, partly because the answers are uncomfortable. What is clear from the research that has been done, is that the way our society behaves towards pregnancy increases the risks to the foetus, including the risk of it developing autism.

Consider for example the average pregnant woman in Britain in the 1950s. She was in her early twenties, did not drink alcohol or take medications during pregnancy, and was not expected to have a job during pregnancy. Not working enabled her to exercise more, get more fresh air, and experience less stress. She ate a lot of meat and fresh fruit and vegetables. When she ate fruit and vegetables it was usually local and not eg ‘fresh’ grapes from Australia kept in stasis with gas for two months. She didn’t usually travel but if she did she was immediately given a seat. She was exposed to little pollution. If her baby was very premature, it would not survive.

Now consider how many women are having babies in their mid to late thirties. How many women are expected to work in stressful jobs throughout pregnancy, and how much pollution they are exposed to from car exhaust, to train metal-contaminated air (pregnant women are advised to avoid the tube), to printer ink, to plastic water bottles. She may commute for hours each day and will often have to stand while doing so. Consider how her diet has changed re fast foods and ready meals, and the impact on her iron/folate levels. She may also have the opportunity to take painkillers or anti-epileptic drugs during pregnancy. If she gives birth to a very premature baby it has a high chance of survival.

But parental age, premature birth, low iron levels and stress during pregnancy etc increase the risk of the foetus having autism. (I mention the commute because I spent 3 hrs a day on trains during pregnancy, and I’m damn sure it raised my physical stress levels. Got offered a seat 3 times in 8 months, sometimes I had to sit on the floor - on the rare occasions that there was space on the floor.)

And it isn’t offensive to discuss this issue, which affects us all.

I was so anxious at school that other children used to ask me why I was shaking. I was constantly asked why I looked so nervous, which of course made me more self conscious, and I became very isolated and depressed, and I was bullied every day. My parents didnt care enough to do anything about it. Not one adult in the school tried to help me. I like to think nowadays someone would spot a child like me and try to find out what's going on. I'm in my 50s now, still never feel 'normal' and have been on antidepressants on and off for my whole adult life. I think it's great that there is more understanding generally about mental health and disabilities now, but I wish I hadn't missed out on getting proper help with my problems.

@orbitalcrisis I disagree. Having to see autistc adults with a career and a happy family life or the ability to scream and whine about it on dicktock complaining how hard it is to live with ASD is actually heart breaking. My DD has "low functioning" (which I hate) ASD. She is 7 with the developemental age of 18-24 months. She is unable to understand language except for basic questions that are yes or no (which she only learned to use correctly last year). She has just learnt her surname. She physically assaults herself in frustration by pulling out her hair and hitting herself in the head. She eats leaves she finds in the street. She would walk off with anyone who put their hand out to her. She sleeps 4 hours per night. She cannot explain when she is hurt or ill. She will never live independently.
My daughter's ASD diagnosis is not the same as those mentioned above. All of the publicity surrounding ASD is based around people who are able to verbalise thier experience and function in society. Those who cannot are often ignored and not mentioned in media. Just watch any modern documentary to do with autism. None focus on those who are unable to advocate for themsleves as they make people uncomfortable and it's not the fashionable kind of autism.

I came on to say something like this too. You’re absolutely right about the additional demands of modern life in terms of massively increased stimuli. But I think that there’s also been a huge shift in expectations about behaviour in the last 150 years or so that may have made things harder for some autistic people. In 19th c English society reserved, introverted behaviour was much more acceptable, whilst noisier, more extroverted behaviour was often considered inappropriate. I realise some autistic people would have fallen foul of those social rules too, but I guess the point I’m making is that as the demands made on those with a low tolerance for stimuli and social interaction have grown the acceptability of opting out of busy social situations and being socially reserved has diminished.

@Scautish I think we are vehemently agreeing with each other.

As I wrote, I have no issue with people using whatever nomenclature they choose. I just find it surprising that people cling to Asperger with such passion. If I had a “Hess fracture” or a “Himmler sprain” I’d probably rather just tell people I’d hurt my leg. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I blame the DSM personally. It’s led to the narrative being controlled by the clever/quirky types (Aspie if you like) who don’t always appreciate the disabilities that come with some ASC diagnoses. Because they are articulate and can use a computer, unlike many autistics. But their needs just get forgotten and the people like the OP assume there is no disability to see here…

ASD now includes other connected disorders such as hyperactivity, Aspergers as well as Autism and other disorders. Which may be why it is more widely diagnosed now. There‘s also a less of a tendancy for parents to sit back and ignore worrying symptoms. Perhaps if parents of previous generations had pursued medical diagnoses we might be further along in ASD research.

@ForTheLoveOfSleep I really don't know when this 'us and them' started between autistic adults and parent-carers of autistic children, but I don't see why we can't all advocate for each other without using words like 'fashionable' and 'whine'. A lot of people are trying to advocate for all autistic people when they talk about autism. And as it is a genetic condition, a lot of autistic adults are also carers for autistic children/adults so have experienced both sides. I don't see how dividing the community can ever help.

I also think that there are so many documentaries on autistic people with low to no support needs because it has only been in the past few decades that we have discovered that we actually exist! There will be another new discovery soon and they will move on to that.

@orbitalcrisis You actually, for me, are case and point. Some "Higher functioning" autistic adults absolutely hate the thought that their autism is less "severe" than others'. I may be a parent of a severely autistic child but am very familiar with severely autistic adults too. There are residential facilities for the adult my daughter is expected to become. Have you ever actually met an autistic adult with such a severity of need that they require constant 24hr supervision? Imagine a woman your age who is no different than a toddler.

There needs to be clearer classification of the severity of ASD. With more research in to why it is such a wide spectrum and how we can allow autistic people to move out from under (what has become) this huge unbrella term. Which, for most, people is now the "naughty child excuse".

It’s ok to be curious OP and I’m curious regarding neurodivergence too.

I was diagnosed with ADHD last year and I’m in my late twenties. At the end of my assessment I was told that I met around 60% of all the ADHD markers but he reckons if I would have been assessed at six I would have marked at least 90-95% - he said that I should thank my parents as I’ve developed good coping mechanisms/habits/done well in life considering.

During the assessment I was constantly asked about my childhood. He said that unfortunately I was apart of the last generation that could go outdoors. I spent my childhood riding my bike, playing in the woods with friends, building dens, roaming around the countryside, paddling streams (never allowed to roam the streets or just ‘hang out’ down the park) - essentially forest school everyday for downtime and a lot of sports/extracurricular to fill my week. Even now when I’m heading towards a meltdown I have to get outdoors into space.

I masked in school and in society. I was the ‘good’ kid because I was a people pleaser but always told that I was easily distracted/needed to learn to apply myself/lazy/learn to concentrate. As a teen I really started to self hate and my confidence plummeted. Two separate teachers told me that I was oxbridge material if I just put in some effort but while I did try to revise I just couldn’t concentrate.

I don’t see my ADHD as a disability and I’d never use it as an excuse as it does come with some traits that are useful: I work best with deadlines/adrenaline (all assignments completed within the last 2 minutes), I cope well under pressure (life and death decisions in an emergency while everyone turns into a mess, I’m your girl!), I’m good at thinking on my feet (good for management), quite a good problem solver (never grew out of the ‘why’ stage).

My opinion based upon an interesting theory (moreso to do with adhd than ASD) is that when we were hunter gatherers people with adhd were the hunters and those without were gathers. Hunters would go out for days into the unknown at a time when meat was low using adrenaline. Gatherers would go out on a daily basis to do the repetitive tasks of gathering fruit. Both roles were equally as important but todays society is set up for gatherers (9-5, sitting down at a desk, education is repetitive, intelligence measured by academia, conforming to social norms).

For society we need all types of people with different qualities and traits. If everyone was tested for neurodivergence, they’d be sectors with a majority of those with ASD, ADHD and ‘neurotypicals’. If everyone was neurotypical we wouldn’t have experts/inventors/technology/the arts/researchers etc.

I reckon my dad has ASD but he lives a perfectly happy life. Without outing myself but he’s contributed through engineering to things that we use on a daily basis. He had a good childhood of tinkering in the shed, playing with lego and reading books than caring for football or playing out with the other kids. The only woman he managed to go on a second date with was my mum as he’s very sociably awkward but the most logical man most have ever met. A teacher now would probably raise with his parents that they’d be worried about his ability to fit in with the other kids but they’d never raise with a parent of a typical kid that they don’t seem to have much of an analytical mind.

If you judge a fish by its an ability to climb a tree… that’s what labels and society does.

Mild social anxiety wouldn't meet the diagnostic criteria for ASD.

I am often truely shocked at the high level of ASD, ADHD and poor MH in secondary and Uni. I know not what the reason is, but it seems very high to me.

Yes I agree with this too to some extent. I have ADHD rather than autism but changing my lifestyle definitely made a difference.

I had a friend with ADHD and autism who was passionately against medication for his ADHD. His attitude was that it was all about being forced into a round hole when what we needed was to build our own square box especially workwise.

'Is it ASD that frequently and are there other things that could explain traits/symptoms more accurately?'

There are some really excellent replies already on this thread and again, I don't want to speak for everyone. However, ASD and spectrum traits/conditions very often come with comorbidities, especially anxiety, depression, controlled eating or eating disorders. Most neurotypical people, or structures like workplaces, schools, etc, will only worry when things are going wrong for the individual or affecting things in a group dynamic, that might be most evident through a comorbid thing showing up.

If things are going well - say, a career is really enhanced by ASD hyperfocus and ability (music talent, say) which is what has happened in my family - then things look more than ok on the outside, but this does not equate to a fully unstressful and 'unaffected' way of living life, as far as the individual is concerned; just that people assume success = happiness, not having life affected by one's disability, and 'being very high functioning'/ 'not looking that autistic' (last 2 statements are upsetting and not positive to my mind, in case of any confusion there).

I had an Asperger’s diagnosis as a child. I am extremely disabled by it to the point I can’t work and my dh can’t work as I need his help for me but also with our dc as we have a large family and the dc also have autism.

It affects every aspect of my life and affects me every day so to say it’s less of a problem isn’t really fair OP

Imagine it like cancer. It’s all cancer but it affect different areas, sometimes it causes huge symptoms other times mild , pain will vary day to day, etc etc but it’s all cancer at the end of the day. It’s the same for ASD as such a huge range of issues and different areas of life affected in each individual but it still all comes under the same heading

@SquirrelSoShiny I have lost count of the times people have had conversations with me about being square pegs and not fitting in a generous round hole. It started back at school but, truly, that is exactly the language that has been used all through my life/career stages. I don't think I have built my box yet, really do wish I could.

@incognitocheeto

I know LOADS of older adults who I think are probably neurodivergent (ASD or ADHD) but have never been assessed or diagnosed. They've obviously managed to get through life without too much trouble and would therefore not be classed as having a disability

this is SUCH an awful comment and exemplifies the problem perfectly

1. no you cannot diagnose or just state you think they are ND. Even if you have family, even if you are a psychologist or whatever. It is completely inappropriate to do this. Autism is not straightforward to diagnose.
2. On the assumption that one or two of them are ND, do you have any idea how offensive it is to say “they’ve obviously managed to get through life without too much trouble”. How arrogant are you to say you know they have had an easy ride? That is so wildly judgemental and EXACTLY the issue I referred to in my first post. Just because you don’t see the disability doesn’t mean it’s not there

people like you just need to stop doing this. You are making life so much worse for those of us who do consider ourselves disabled. You do not get to tell another autistic person whether they are disabled or not. It has absolutely nothing to do with you and you simply are not in a position to judge this.

attitudes like yours are one of the biggest problems. Please please try to understand why what you have written is so wrong.

Cancer is described in stages though @TerrysOrange

I feel puzzled that some forms of ASD, say what used to be Aspergers, can be classed as a disability.

My 11yo was dx this year and they said previously it would have been one of Aspergers.
On the face of it you might not think of her as disabled - she passed the 11 plus, she travels to school independently, she has lots of friends.

On the other hand, she also screams in fear if she sees a dog in the distance on a lead minding its own business. She won't eat outdoors because she's terrified of birds. She refuses to get in the bath if she has a papercut. She hits and swears and throws things when her clothes don't feel right, which is every day. To my mind she is definitely disabled by her autism and will be her whole life in various ways.

"I do find your post uninformed and unhelpful."

Surely the point of an OP asking for information about something is that s/he is uninformed and hoping to be better informed. Then, better informed, and possibly making other readers better informed, everyone is more likely to be helpful.

Or we could just complain that some people don't know 'enough' about certain topics and refuse to tell them more.