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Do we help PIL buy a house..?

51 replies

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:16

Pil have been mortgage free for many years. They would like to move to a more expensive area. There is a shortfall between their house value and that of a similar place in the new area. Their place is already pretty modest so no ability to 'downsize'. So, they have proposed using some savings then using the Homewise scheme to bridge the £ gap. As I understand it, a company provides the additional funds and therefore owns part of your property, and when you either move, die, or move into care they take a further chunk of equity.

Dh and I thought there must be a better way for them to arrange this... Dh is worried that because the house price and their equity is really low they would essentially be giving up control of where they live as they would never be able to afford to move again. They have moved a lot, although they say this is a final move (they said that last time. And the time before come to think if it!). Also, they have always been very frugal and almost morbid in the way they speak of dh's 'inheritance'. We have always told them we would rather they spend savings as they see fit to enjoy their lives, and they did so to move a lot closer to us a few years ago.

After speaking to our IFA we are thinking of proposing to help them buy the house, thus avoiding any schemes. There are various ways of doing it, but apparently the ideal in the circumstances would be for them to provide the equity and further deposit if they can/wish, and us/dh to take a small specialist mortgage for the shortfall. We would own the house, pil would pay for the mortgage. We would make it clear that in all practical ways outside of its purchase it is their house.

I'm just wondering if we have thought through all of the potential problems properly. It all seems easy in theory but I know this is the kind of thing with all sorts of potential drama..! I am happy to be able to help them but would hate for it to cause problems and we need to prioritise our own family and they would want us to! I think there's a 50/50 chance they'll turn down the proposal outright...

Relevant information:

Dh is an only child and we all have an excellent relationship. They helped us with a deposit for our first house.

They are their 70s in good health. They have a pretty good pension income.

The mortgage would represent approx 30% of the house value and would probably be interest only. It would be half the size of our current mortgage.

Our house is of much higher value than theirs and we have no intention of moving. Our mortgage is for approx a third of our house value.

We have a good savings buffer and are very comfortable in our current set up, although in no position to cover their shortfall (not that they'd ever accept it.)

We are in our 30s with two children.

We have discussed the possibility of doing some work on our house in a few years time, but it's a "wouldn't it be lovely" idea rather than a necessity. I think we would still have capacity to extend our own mortgage for this but wouldn't choose to do so for a while yet.

Thanks if you've read so far - let me know what potential disasters I'm missing!

OP posts:
FlibbertyGiblets · 02/11/2022 10:20

What is the plan for paying off the capital at the end of the interest only term?

confusedlots · 02/11/2022 10:21

I'm no expert but would this not somehow be seen as deprivation of assets? If your parents go into care, you own the house so a sale couldn't be forced to pay for their care?

rookiemere · 02/11/2022 10:22

If they already live close to you, what's the motivation for the move ?

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OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:23

Apparently the 7 year rule comes in to play as they are essentially 'gifting' us the equity. The estate wouldn't be big enough for IHT purposes.

In terms of care costs, the same rule applies I think.

OP posts:
Daftapath · 02/11/2022 10:24

As well as speaking to your IFA, I think you should also get legal advice before making any decisions.

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:25

They are still a couple of hours away from us rookiemare. This would be a bit closer but still a drive away, they just couldn't afford to live here. They are determined to move from their house regardless due to problems with a crazy neighbour, and want to move closer to where they grew up and other family.

OP posts:
OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:26

Yes, if the outline of a plan is made a solicitor would be the next port of call.

OP posts:
Mumoftwoinprimary · 02/11/2022 10:29

The big risk is if you two get divorced. Their equity would be part of your marital assets and so fair game for you.

(And before you say “I would never do that” - things change and in the end if it comes down to a choice between making your kids homeless or your ex in-laws homeless I think I know which way you would go. As I would do the same.)

TeenDivided · 02/11/2022 10:31

If you would own the home as a second home, then when it comes to be sold there would be CGT to pay on it.

Would another option be for you to extend your own mortgage, then draw up a proper loan agreement to lend your PIL the money which they then gradually repay to you with interest?

TeenDivided · 02/11/2022 10:32

I too would be concerned re deprivation of assets.

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:32

I hadn't thought of that. Obvs I'm going to say we are not going to get divorced (!), but of course you never know what the future holds. I don't know if there would be a way to somehow ringfence their equity, but we can try and find out, thank you.

OP posts:
Medoca · 02/11/2022 10:33

Won’t you the have stamp duty to pay as it’s a second home, and CGT? Do they not have any savings left they could use? That’s more of a worry.

HammerheadCorvette · 02/11/2022 10:33

I would think if you are doing this, you do what it takes to get them as close as possible to you - especially if the area they are currently proposing to move to has no ties for them. The closest house you can afford in which ever way makes sense both financially and looking towards deprivation of assets issues.

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 02/11/2022 10:35

I think you need to plan for what happens if one parent dies and you need to pay the entire mortgage. Ie plan for worst case - you and pil lose an income, can you still afford it/all have somewhere to still live. (Yes to a very good solicitor who specialises in this area)

HermioneWeasley · 02/11/2022 10:36

Moving to another house still a drive away from family in your 70s sounds mental. They need to be moving to suitable accommodation- whether that’s a bungalow or retirement flat

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:39

They are looking at an area which is slightly closer to us but significantly closer to other family, as well as being familiar due to growing up there. My own opinion is that they should have moved much closer to us in one go years ago when they maybe could have afforded it..! Or stay where they are and deal with crazy neighbour, but it's making them unhappy ☹️ I think they will move to this area whatever we say or do, it's just the financial arrangements in question.

They do have savings. I don't know how much, but it's not enough to cover the price difference or they would do it. We have savings too, combined with theirs we could do it but that's a step too far they would never agree and selfishly possibly neither would I, we need to have a buffer and ability to help our own children first.

Lots to think about so far, thanks all.

OP posts:
fallfallfall · 02/11/2022 10:39

If their pensions are good why not a personal line of credit? Then they can pay it off (similar to a mortgage)?

SpringSparrow · 02/11/2022 10:39

I really can’t see why your in laws would sign up to this. They gift you their equity in their house, you get an interest only mortgage which they pay. What’s the benefit to them? Also with interest rates increasing, I’d just concentrate on paying off your own mortgage.

confusedlots · 02/11/2022 10:43

What income do PIL have that means they can pay enough rent to cover the interest only mortgage? Are you taking account of the fact that interest rates will rise even more? What if one of them dies, can the other cover the rent?

I own a modest buy to let property but it brings in a good rental income. However when I need to remortgage in a couple of years time it may well work out that I'm losing money on it due to the hike in interest rates

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:44

HermioneWeasley Sorry, I said house, I meant bungalow. They are in a bungalow now, and looking for another one. They are very stubborn and headstrong, as we all can be I suppose. I certainly don't agree with all of the decisions they have made, but have had to accept they are theirs to make!

OP posts:
TeapotCollection · 02/11/2022 10:48

I’d be concerned about deprivation of assets too. I think I’ve read on here that the 7 year rule doesn’t exist anymore, has anyone else heard this? Hope I haven’t invented that

Velvian · 02/11/2022 10:48

Deprivation of assets in terms of care charges is applicable if either of your PILs currently have a care need or if the LA can show that assets were disposed of in order to avoid care fees. There is no time limit. The IHT rules do not relate to deprivation of caoital/assets.

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 11:00

Ok, lots to think on, it sounds like further answers on deprivation of assets are needed.
Why would they go for it? Well, they are considering this scheme as the only way of getting what they want in the short term. I was hoping there was some financial gymnastics possible to allow them to still retain some choices, and they have a healthy income from pensions so could cover a modest monthly amount. But this is why I started this thread, it's hard to think outside of a situation so thanks all.

OP posts:
ManefesationofConciousness · 02/11/2022 11:00

OffPointe · 02/11/2022 10:23

Apparently the 7 year rule comes in to play as they are essentially 'gifting' us the equity. The estate wouldn't be big enough for IHT purposes.

In terms of care costs, the same rule applies I think.

Deprivation of assets for care doesnt have a time limit
Most relatives seem to hit the care need early 80s

ManefesationofConciousness · 02/11/2022 11:01

You will also have to pay:
tax on all rental income from them
2nd home stamp duty

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