Are NHS redundancies on the way?

[tvod2244]

I keep hearing the government say "tough decisions are coming" and "public spending cuts" and I've started worrying that I could lose my job :(

I have been in the NHS for 6 years (non-clinical) and couldn't imagine doing anything else. I love my job. I know nothing has been defined in terms of what J.Hunt means by cuts but if anyone is able to offer any thoughts/reassurance it would be much appreciated xx

Not sure where they can make any redundancies? I’m admin which is the lowest salary in nhs and we are on our knees with staff shortages. Higher up the ladder are probably worse.

The thing is every so often this comes round that there are too many "non-clinical roles" - then, they freeze recruitment only to find out that those non-clinical roles are, in the main, required so that clinical staff can spend time on clinical work rather than doing administrative task which still need to be done. Would we rather have clinical staff seeing patients or spend their time doing recruitment admin, printing and posting letters, processing referrals, collecting the endless amount of data that has to be produced?

And we often hear that there are "too many managers" - many middle managers are also clinicians, managing services and doing both clinical and operational management. In fact, the Kings Fund says the opposite - compared to most businesses, the NHS as comparatively fewer managers given its size and function. And despite what the daily mail seems to think, management functions do need to happen in order for things to get done safely, continuously improve quality, and to retain staff - just like in any other large business.

Who knows what will happen - I do agree that rather than redundancy, it's more likely to be recruitment freeze in most NHS trusts.

My sister’s husband works in the PR/media/comms team at a major Midlands hospital and he seems pretty certain he won’t get made redundant. Before I met him I didn’t even know hospitals had that sort of role! Really makes you think about the way we spend money in the NHS.

@Dillwyninthebath sorry
ICS integrated care system - CCG plus secondary care supposedly all playing nicely.
HCSA health and social care act - Andrew Lansleys brainchild.

@WingBingo and @VeggieTables it's shit isn't it and the handling of the announcement.....
I'm finding those national briefings to be tone deaf. to you both

Really? I don't know where you work but everyone I know who is non clinical - for context I manage a regional based team so I have my team for reference, plus my colleagues, the people in the services that my team are responsible for overseeing, their staff, other stakeholders in ICSs (or ICBs I admit I don't know one or other these days) and people in primary and secondary care - we are all on our knees and very very pissed off with the attitude that because we are non clinical we are therefore not important.

Try running an NHS without non clinical staff. Just for one day. See how it all fucking falls apart.

I think part of the point is that a lot of
Non clinical work can be executed by systems and automation. So overtime the development of these systems becomes cheaper and replaces those roles, we're clinical roles can be enhanced but not replaced with systems in the same way.

They've been building these systems for years. And they are openly pushing primary care to private firms.

So yeah if I were non clinical
In the NHS i might be thinking about a move to private sector round about now.

Thank you. Yes it was poorly handled and I don’t need to hear another anecdote, I just want information.

You’d think at this stage we’d have some

Just as thought, who did you think did - press announcements, responds to news queries, keeps the internet and intranet sites up to date, makes sure the public are aware of what's going on / change in services, communicates major local health campaigns / makes sure staff are up to date with what's going on the hospital?

Because without PR / comms, it's likely that none of that would happen. And do you want a clinical member of staff to stop seeing patients so they can do all those things?

Too many middle managers with clip boards 😳

Yeah my experience of NHS IT systems are not that positive.….you’d be paying staff again to fix and maintain them all the time. ( what happens now already)

We certainly aren’t on high tech where I work! Too costly when in a growing deficit to invest into.

Two words

care notes 🤦‍♀️.

The ignorance on this thread blows my mind. There is not a lot of fat in the NHS, people are uneducated on the matter if they truly think that.

I am also from one of the three orgs merging. I do think there is some fat to be cut at that level, but not in 'the NHS' generally. We are streamlining programmes and there is vital preventative work that will now not be proceeding. Think cancer programmes, mental health programmes. The kind of care that people have been declaring atrocious throughout COVID and before, any progression on that is currently facing significant hurdles. That's where we are. Cutting some staff at NHSE/NHSD/HEE is not going to free up billions to reinvest in patient care, it will barely scratch the surface.

We only have half the staff and half the management we should have. I cannot see any cuts being made in our dept.

I worked in a non clinical role during the credit crunch and rather than redundancies it meant a recruitment freeze where posts werent filled so departments had to cope with less staff doing the same work and there were no prospects of promotion.

We certainly aren’t on high tech where I work! Too costly when in a growing deficit to invest into.

This year's payrise was partially paid for by cuts in the digital (i.e IT) budget so don't expect it to get better any time soon. I work in NHS IT and though my Trust does have some decent IT systems which we're gradually modernising, others are ancient and we don't have the money or the people to do much about improving them.

Comms in the NHS is essential.

Throughout Covid the teams were working round the clock - changes in processes and procedures were changing by the minute and had to be communicated quickly and efficiently to thousands of staff asap. Without comms the hospitals would not be able to function internally for sure, or at the very least would be hugely inefficient of getting a consistent message out there.

They were also supporting the filming of all the footage you saw during Covid from the media to make sure the story could be told and it wasn’t all behind closed doors (a massive job when there is so many infection control and patient confidentiality protocols). It’s also the team that supports the media when something happens like Grenfell or terrorist attacks when the public are desperate for news of casualties and the scale of the problem.

It includes making sure signage is up to date (in some Trusts at least) so you can find your way to your department. It’s keeping the website up to date, managing social media channels, ensuring recorded messages on the telephone line are up to date. Its managing telephone directories. It’s managing volunteer and staff recognition schemes to keep morale high when the government keep pushing it lower. All with no central budget and often with a team of two or three people.

Makes you wonder where the NHS is spending its money doesn’t it!

The cretin really needs to leave the NHS alone. Difficult decisions can be made by making his friends ( and wife) cough up owed tax

Non clinical work can be executed by systems and automation

Erm, no really it can't.

A robot can't hold a meeting with seven different providers to check that they are aware of the national requirements for their services - just one of my meetings (or rather one of many meetings) this month.

Methinks you've read too much daily mail

Our pay rises had to come out of our budget for services. The govt says have a pay rise, then fails to fund it so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Comes out with sort of shite on other threads too.

@EngTech the same was said about DWP when I retired twelve years ago. Too many managers, have to cut.

Now I read, on this forum, people are waiting weeks/months for UC payments ect. Who do you think chased cases that were del ayed?

when I managed, what was then an Unemployment Benefit office, in the 80s, every week I got a read out that told me how many new cases we had, how many had been assessed from date of claim to date of claim plus six days. If any claims went over the six days, I could identify them, by talking to my supervisor s and also identify why they were taking so long.

I realised it was time to get out when unemployment was high and they started shedding staff. This was the first time in forty years of service, I'd ever seen that happen.

So, to opening poster, I wouldn't be at all surprised if This happens.

I was due an NHS appointment tomorrow. I cancelled it in June by phone and in writing. Because my treatment has changed and I thought I'd better in case my notes didn't catch up with me.

Last Monday I got a call from one of the nurses to tell me I had tonget blood tests done. I explained I had cancelled because my treatment had changed.

Last Thursday another nurse called time to explain I didn't need my appointment on 25th because my treatment had changed and I couldn't have both drugs at the same time.

I explained I knew that because the consultant and I had discussed the optimal treatment in May, which I had elected to pay £2,500 for because NICE guidance didn't cover it. I explained also I had cancelled the appointment and examined why on the previous Monday. The nurse explained again very slowly that I couldn't have the two drugs at the same time.

The following day I received a letter telling me that regrettably my appointment on 25th October had had to be cancelled at short notice and I would be sent another as soon as one was available.

The last time I attended the department I was one of two patients receiving an infusion. There were two nurses. One each. They were both complaining loudly they were too busy. In the hour I was there I discovered one went into nursing as an SEN at 17, converted to SRN in her 40s, had worked in theatre and now did locum.work. One of her dd's was going through a divorce and one lived in Canada. One of her grandchildren was doing a project on the Incas.

I see a combination of much waste and mismanagement. And not a great dealmof overwork. Incompetence yes.

I received a letter from health & care trust re my daughter last week

• at bottom… cc Care Notes 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Fucking great