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Teachers - notice period is this week to leave at Christmas

266 replies

Workyticket · 24/10/2022 12:02

I'm on a Facebook group for teachers looking to get out

Notice has to be in by the end of this week I believe (I'm FE so different) and there are so many teachers putting theirs in.

I know that @Noblegiraffe is usually the one to start these threads and some people think she exaggerates

We're in the shit people - already in crisis and way more will be gone at Christmas

Email your MP, back teachers striking when they (inevitably) go out and be prepared to start forking out for stationery etc to send your kids into school with.

OP posts:
Wondershoe · 26/10/2022 23:03

uk.indeed.com/career/courier/salaries

according to Indeed it’s just under £13k base salary at zero hours contract so no minimum wage

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 08:21

And yet the numbers underneath show that you are choosing the lowest end of payrate to make your point.

So it depends on the company and where in the country.

So yes your hostility is misplaced.

napody · 27/10/2022 08:29

Wondershoe · 26/10/2022 19:55

Quick browse on indeed, many graduate trainee positions are starting on 33k

but many here are talking about leaving after teaching for many years - they are not the fresh grads from amazing unis that get on the £33k grad schemes.

I don’t have a problem obviously and people should do whatever makes them happy. I just think pushing a ‘grass is greener’ mentality isn’t always helpful. As the wife of a postie demonstrated, what you think a job is and what a job actually is can be quite different

😂at your last sentence when clearly what you think the job of a teacher is and what it actually is are clearly very different.

Tons of high level skills that mean even if they have to go down a couple of rungs, most likely would be promoted very quickly as they'll be working and learning at 'teacher pace'.
Plus research showing that although many leaving teaching take a pay cut they are far happier.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Wondershoe · 27/10/2022 09:47

@FrippEnos these few companies reporting massive pay are con artists. Look at the reviews under the top ones you’ve referenced above for instance - they are ALL 1 star saying ‘this company hasn’t paid me’ and ‘they are con artists.’ They work by reeling desperate people in using them for work for a couple of weeks with the promise of high pay and then not paying them/ paying them a tiny amount.

And yes, as a teacher, I would hope you’d understand this by simply looking at reviews and use common sense to deduce that these tiny courier companies offering ridiculously high pay are not for real.

I actually think it’s incredibly insulting to suggest that anyone can get a job paying £50k by simply being a courier. It’s insulting to those struggling on minimum wage and trying desperately to make ends meet. And it insulting to those doing these horrible low paid jobs with zero workers rights or unions. And it’s insulting to suggest you’d rather be doing that for ‘easy money’. It’s not hostility it’s disbelief to hear qualified teachers spouting such shit

Wondershoe · 27/10/2022 09:48

Plus @FrippEnos I take it as a teacher you know what an ‘average’ is? I quoted the average salary. Not the lowest end.

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 10:08

Wondershoe

Before you continue to be insulting, pissy and overly protective of your post.

A zero hours contract would be the lowest end. as would NMW. as others are paying more for the same job which would raise the average.
Or don't you understand what average means?

It’s not hostility it’s disbelief to hear qualified teachers spouting such shit

Definitely hostility, otherwise you would be able to discuss things without resort to such language.

As for "easy money" where have a said that. Oh that's right I didn't just more "shit" from you.

Are you even aware of the difficulties courier have or are as blinkered with them as you are with teaching?

CallmeAngelina · 27/10/2022 10:09

When my son began work (desk-job) at a well-known online delivery company as a graduate, his starting salary was more than mine as a teacher of 35 years' standing.

Workyticket · 27/10/2022 10:50

CallmeAngelina · 27/10/2022 10:09

When my son began work (desk-job) at a well-known online delivery company as a graduate, his starting salary was more than mine as a teacher of 35 years' standing.

Amazon? I've looked on the website a few times but I can only find warehouse operative jobs.

I'd promised myself I wasn't going to work this holiday but I'm about to fire up the laptop for a few hours as I was awake in the night thinking about stuff I need to do

Hoping that 4 hours this afternoon will mean I sleep tonight and I'll be sorted for next week (well, I won't - the stuff on my list is catch up work, not get ahead work)

OP posts:
Wondershoe · 27/10/2022 10:56

@FrippEnos I’m not going to continue this as your posts are confused to the point of gaslighting.

Do I understand what an average is ? - yes. And the average courier salary is £13k as I stated. So the average salary is below minimum wage. Some earn more, some less but the average courier takes home £13k. I don’t understand what your point here is?

Are you even aware of the difficulties courier have? Erm yes, because I pointed them out to you in my post. Zero hours contracts, poor working conditions, no union.

It’s you (and other posters) arguing you can swap teaching for a £50k job as a courier not me! And if you’re not arguing that then what exactly ARE you saying? Why are we talking about couriers?

And sorry if I really offended you by using the word shit. I don’t find it offensive but clearly you do so we differ there.

Shockmeafter · 27/10/2022 11:04

Well this thread has turned weird.

@FrippEnos it was you that said A quick search in my area shows that I could be a courier for £48k. Unskilled, ability to drop off parcel (roughly 16 an hour) routes worked out for you and vehicle/fuel provided

My step son was a courier between school and uni and it’s a hellish job that doesn’t pay anything like that. Some weeks he’d earn in the tens….that’s what zero hour contracts are like. Driving all day, lots of pressure, no toilet breaks, food breaks, peeing in a bottle, working 7-9. Even for £48k that wouldn’t be a good option to swap to from teaching, let alone for £13k!!

there are lots of valued career opportunities for anyone - including teachers- to swap into but, believe me, this is not one of them and I wouldn’t encourage it or your peers.

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 11:12

Wondershoe
I’m not going to continue this as your posts are confused to the point of gaslighting.

It’s you (and other posters) arguing you can swap teaching for a £50k job as a courier not me! And if you’re not arguing that then what exactly ARE you saying? Why are we talking about couriers?

Didn't say this, and you accuse me of gaslighting.

But feel free not to discuss further.

Wondershoe · 27/10/2022 11:14

@FrippEnos you literally said this

A quick search in my area shows that I could be a courier for £48k. Unskilled, ability to drop off parcel (roughly 16 an hour) routes worked out for you and vehicle/fuel provided

drops mic

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 11:25

Shockmeafter
Well this thread has turned weird.

Yup . It has.

@FrippEnos it was you that said A quick search in my area shows that I could be a courier for £48k. Unskilled, ability to drop off parcel (roughly 16 an hour) routes worked out for you and vehicle/fuel provided

Yes I did, because that is what the advert says.

My step son was a courier between school and uni and it’s a hellish job that doesn’t pay anything like that. Some weeks he’d earn in the tens….that’s what zero hour contracts are like. Driving all day, lots of pressure, no toilet breaks, food breaks, peeing in a bottle, working 7-9. Even for £48k that wouldn’t be a good option to swap to from teaching, let alone for £13k!!

I not only respect your response, but know that it is true, I have various friends that have done it. But when another poster (not you) twists what I put and gets pissy with it they will get that back.

there are lots of valued career opportunities for anyone - including teachers- to swap into but, believe me, this is not one of them and I wouldn’t encourage it or your peers.

There are many jobs that I wouldn't do. but I do know teachers that have become couriers on permanent contracts (not zero hours) and enjoy it. Was it a drop in wages? Yes. But they enjoy the driving.
I know others that have left to go on to purely commission based work and have done very well.
And others that stack selves at their local supermarket.
I even know ex teachers that have left and received higher salaries.

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 11:26

Wondershoe

I’m not going to continue this as your posts are confused to the point of gaslighting.

You literally said this^

Yet here you are.

BlueRidge · 27/10/2022 11:41

@Workyticket Amazon have a hiring freeze on at the moment for many sectors, which might explain why there aren't many jobs showing.

channin · 27/10/2022 11:46

@Workyticket that is a ridiculous expectation for you to do all those lesson plans. Who is it that is demanding that? The school / head?

I'm a teacher abroad. If I had to do that for every lesson I would quit tomorrow.

What would happen if you didn't do it?

Shockmeafter · 27/10/2022 11:58

@FrippEnos Im afraid I think you’re not behaving very well here. You’re saying you didn’t say something / accusing of gaslighting then when the other poster quoted where you you did indeed say it you’re saying they’ve twisted it! The other poster may be getting annoyed - tbh and a bit rude - but I can see why 😭

Workyticket · 27/10/2022 12:01

channin · 27/10/2022 11:46

@Workyticket that is a ridiculous expectation for you to do all those lesson plans. Who is it that is demanding that? The school / head?

I'm a teacher abroad. If I had to do that for every lesson I would quit tomorrow.

What would happen if you didn't do it?

They say it's a Scheme of Work, rather than a lesson plan. Ot has to have all that detail though - so it's definitely a lesson plan to me!

The Exam Board we use has a detailed SoW but we can't use that.

We had to hand it in to SLT last week for the next half term. I didn't - because I've not had time. So I'll let you know what happens 🙈

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 27/10/2022 12:04

There are absolutely jobs in the private sector that also mirror this workload and even have it a lot worse, but this is rarely the bottom run and usually comes with a substantial wage

Exactly.

Thanks to whoever replied to the gaslighting on my behalf - I genuinely cba as it was obvious what post I was responding to therefore it was obviously not done in good faith or in the interests of anything other than derailing and preventing teachers talking to each other about their experiences.

Locally to me real bottom rung opportunities include 25k (starting salary whilst doing a fully paid for 16wk accelerated route to full qualification) as a trainee mortgage advisor. At the end of that there are guaranteed jobs working in office, from home or hybrid where that salary continues to be your basic and projections are of up to 60k a year (clearly, obviously YES based on your own level of ability and skill and hard work to bring in commissions). So 25k for the first four months whilst being retrained in a useful transferrable qualification. You could then do 6 months working for that company from home and building up some experience for your cv and then branch out on your own or apply for jobs with financial institutions who will be able to see what you've achieved in the brief time you've been qualified plus know your background as a teacher means you can cope with demanding fast paced environments and responsibility etc.

That's hopefully realistic for you?

I wouldn't be looking to instantly be on the same salary personally. I'm currently looking at a job in my skill area of teaching but with a lot less responsibility, much lower contact time, lots of time in an office doing things other than face to face student work, 3 weeks a year where there's no students in at all etc. 9-5, no work to take home, 40 weeks a year with some choice over when you can take holiday (though obviously still restricted but SOME choice means a lot when you've had none and no ability ever to avoid sky high flight prices).

It would mean a £10k pay cut, though universal credit would buffer some of that as a lone parent bringing in the sole household income, and working an additional day to my current 4 days a week and there may be little 'obvious' handed to you on a plate direct career progression available but that's all ok tbh. I could take a year doing a job that still uses my skills with young people and teaching and 1:1 pastoral support etc and gives me the happy side of my job which is the fun in the classroom and building relationships with young people etc but with a hell of a lot less responsibility and stress and extra work and no breathing space in the day and slt breathing down your neck. I could then decide ok, what do I want to do now and take it from there.

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 12:09

Shockmeafter · 27/10/2022 11:58

@FrippEnos Im afraid I think you’re not behaving very well here. You’re saying you didn’t say something / accusing of gaslighting then when the other poster quoted where you you did indeed say it you’re saying they’ve twisted it! The other poster may be getting annoyed - tbh and a bit rude - but I can see why 😭

I haven't denied that I posted what the advert said.
Why would I?
I have posted that its an advert. But I didn't say £50K, I didn't say that it was the average wage, nor did I say that teachers expected to go for a new job at the same wage. Nor have I posted that I hope that another poster isn't 'whatever'.

But I have said that I will reply in the same attitude that posters approach me with.

Shockmeafter · 27/10/2022 12:24

Poster you said you could swap teaching to be a courier and there were jobs at £48k

You - Didn't say this, and you accuse me of gaslighting

Poster - quote showing you did

You - Yes I did, because that is what the advert says

poster - it’s really hard being a courier because xyz and the average salary is £13k. These £48k don’t really exist.

you - Are you even aware of the difficulties courier have or are as blinkered with them as you are with teaching?

you - I do know teachers that have become couriers on permanent contracts (not zero hours) and enjoy it.

it’s like you have a memory blank with each post 😂

swallowedAfly · 27/10/2022 12:27

Whether you are private or public sector the world of work and generating income is changing. People with a bit of imagination who are not overly, to the point of paralysed, risk averse and already have a few strings to their bow and quite enjoy adding more are more likely to thrive imo and achieve some kind of work life balance. The idea that you have to switch from one secure fully covering everything you need financially, progression wise, pension etc to another the same is just not true and not the point.

Say I take this 10k less job and do it in such a way that I am definitely, deliberately adding to my cv by working in a different environment and style of education provision and very deliberately styling my successes and projects and the relationships I build and references I want to take forward for a year and use it as a stepping stone into the next thing I want to do having built up the contacts and evidence I need to help that transition. Does earning 10k less for one year really matter? If it really really did then with a low stress job there'd be ways I could try and also make that 10k gross (ie. factor in tax, factor in associated expenses ((eg. too many takeaways because too stressed to cook, expensive flights because has to be in school holiday etc)) and factor in reductions you could make in spending habits etc to close that gap a bit) and still be less stressed and exhausted than I was.

I think realising how many strings you have to your bow and how you could develop them is vital - for some it may mean wanting to branch out into something totally different to teaching and remember we could be talking about art teachers, computer science specialists, people with maths degrees, graphic designers etc etc if you're thinking about secondary just as a few examples of the skills people have alongside their teaching that could be used outside of school. You really think it's going to be incredibly hard for someone with a Maths degree to match 30-35k within a year or two?

For others it could mean rethinking how they want to use their teaching experience and skills - privately running their own classes or tutoring or filling a hole in the market opened by covid or underfunding in schools OR it could be wanting to switch to FE in a different kind of role or to HE or teacher training. Whatever the ultimate goal it may require 2 or 3 stepping stones to get there but so what? You have to compare to the reality of how you are feeling, what life is like, what you are having to do for that monthly income etc not just a number that has to be instantly matched.

I can see how this might be more challenging or scary for teachers who have always taught and been ground down to not see their skills and how to capitalise on and sell those outside of a traditional school system but that's a psychological barrier and doesn't have to be a real one. Someone who has been an English teacher for 20 years and an exam marker and even a supervisor of exam markers has a lot of fucking skill that is totally taken for granted in their school but allows them to command ridiculously high hourly rates for tutoring and can still be earning a 'secure' income from their work with exam boards and without the stress of full time teaching may be able to expand on that and take on more or be offered further opportunities with that exam board.

It's not an employment world where you have to be a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer or a fireman or a ..... and they all get a uniform and job for life and the only other option is to switch to another.

The thing is hopefully we don't want all these teachers to leave! All this people who yes, in my opinion, with a bit of recovery time and a lot of confidence and reprogramming, could be at least as successful in terms of finances outside of the school system would be good to KEEP in schools. But not out of fear that they will never survive in the mythical 'real world' or Private Sector but because we make their jobs bearable and humane enough that they stay and do what they chose to do which is use their skills and personality and personal values to help young people.

Is it so much to ask for basic tolerable working conditions and enough funding in our schools that they're not wanting to leave in droves?

Anything other than that central issue is a distraction really and I apologise for running off with that distraction but I do think it's important to recognise that yes teachers are skilled and yes they do have other options and no it's not ok to make out that this is all they're good for and therefore they should accept whatever shit sandwich they're given and say thank you sir and doff their cap.

swallowedAfly · 27/10/2022 12:28

Apologies - if anyone actually reads that pour yourself a large G&T as a reward or commiseration for having used that time on my passionate monologuing. Half term is a time zone in which it is always past the yard arm in my book.

FrippEnos · 27/10/2022 12:36

Shockmeafter

and yet you have not been able to produce a direct quote.

Very strange.

channin · 27/10/2022 12:54

Neverwrestlewithapig · 24/10/2022 23:12

Teachers don’t need to try and walk into a job with an equivalent pay. For those of you thinking about leaving but worried about about money, watch this video from a popular fb group:
If you don’t want to click on my link (understandable) then just type in the title on youtube or a search engine.

Amazing video! So inspiring, encouraging and life-affirming!

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