To think that tea rooms close too early

[CoolForCats09]

This probably sounds like a totally pointless thread but this kind of annoys me - why do most tea rooms close at 4?
I get that places might open early so close early but I'd love to find more places that are open until 5 at least. I think ideal tea and cake time is about 4ish but there's never anywhere open by then, unless it's Costa.

Has anyone else ever thought the same?

@Lemevoir

There are several tea shops/coffee shops in my town which don't open until 9.30am but still close around 3.30-4pm. That's really irritating if I fancy a coffee directly after dropping the kids at school, but would have to hang around for 20 minutes. So I don't bother, unless there are other things I also need to do in town.

Various reasons/explanations have been given by numerous posters on this thread. Getting part time staff to work during school hours is a lot easier than trying to find staff who need to pick up their kids from school. Likewise, lots of after school clubs such as dance and swimming lessons etc are held straight after school and need the parent for travel between school and the lesson venue.

It can typically take an hour or two to shut down the premises after official closing, i.e. waiting for ovens etc to cool before cleaning, washing up the cutlery, crockery, cooking utensils, emptying the dishwasher, etc., cleaning/mopping/wiping floors, tables and other surfaces, cashing up, etc - it needs to be "ready" for a flying start the next morning as food prep etc needs to start straight away which can take another hour or two before opening time! Our village bakery/pie shop closes at 2pm, but the two ladies who run it don't walk past my office until around 4pm. If they stayed open to 4, then, they'd not leave until 6, etc.

The reality is that your "9.30 to 3.30" means more like 7.30 to 5.30! Just because it's not open doesn't mean they're not working behind the scenes. That means two staff shifts which is simply not viable for most small cafes which are typically operated by their owners supplemented with part time staff, and many owners/staff will be parents having to juggle school hours.

Why don't they stagger their hours?

Because it's not worth it.

None open on a Sunday and those that open Saturday all close by 2pm and lunch type food is sold by around 11am.

Do you not think that maybe they've done their research and realises Sunday opening and Saturday afternoon opening is pointless?

Businesses don't just choose random hours and close early to piss you off. If they've learned that they don't make a profit on Sundays or on winter afternoons then they won't open!

Experience says otherwise.

People won't go daily or even weekly as it's too expensive and they have activities or play dates or it's sunny so they'd rather go to the park.

A few people buying their kids a milkshake or some cake once a month isn't enough - they need daily, guaranteed income.

Businesses don't just choose random hours and close early to piss you off. If they've learned that they don't make a profit on Sundays or on winter afternoons then they won't open

to an extent, but some independents also open when it suits them, eg around school hours so they might actually be losing quite a lot of revenue, but won't employ someone else to open in their absence. We have a zero waste shop that closes at 2.30, I assume due to needing to collect kids from school, I know that the owner does have school aged kids. Capricious opening hours are the worst thing about independent cafes and shops.

Getting part time staff to work during school hours is a lot easier than trying to find staff who need to pick up their kids from school

It is a bit annoying when everything is set up around parents with school-aged kids, you'd think the rest of the population didn't exist either as a pool of customers, or indeed a pool of workers.

@lieselotte

but some independents also open when it suits them, eg around school hours so they might actually be losing quite a lot of revenue, but won't employ someone else to open in their absence.

"In their absence" is the key really. You can't just leave a random part time worker, such as a Uni student, "in charge" whilst you're not there. It needs to be a competent person. Whilst the owner is there, then yes, all they often need is someone to help out who'll just basically do the simple things and do what they're told, but when they're not there, they need someone capable of doing everything, from cooking through to all other aspects such as dealing with problems with the till, dealing with problem customers, with proper food handling training, etc. That kind of person with such skills are notoriously hard to find, especially for just the odd few hours here and there!

Yes, you're going to retort with "how hard can it be to run a tea room aren't you"? But in reality, it's a multi-skilled job that needs experience etc. Completely different to someone being constantly told what to do and who has "someone in the back" who can help them when they're struggling with something!

The reality is that in a lot of businesses, unless they have a manager, then the owner really does have to be there during opening hours, perhaps with the odd break during quiet times.

to an extent, but some independents also open when it suits them, eg around school hours so they might actually be losing quite a lot of revenue, but won't employ someone else to open in their absence.

But whoever they leave in charge needs to be trained up to do everything needed - which generally paying a manager with management experience. And you can't just hire a manager for a couple of hours a week - they need to be employed 2-3 days a week at a minimum, which is a big cost if you only really "need" them there for a couple of hours a day.

It is a bit annoying when everything is set up around parents with school-aged kids, you'd think the rest of the population didn't exist either as a pool of customers, or indeed a pool of workers.

Well, nobody is stopping non-parents from opening up and running successful tea rooms that stay open until 5pm. But they'll probably find that they don't make anywhere near as much money as they think they will!

@whataboutsecondbreakfast

Well, nobody is stopping non-parents from opening up and running successful tea rooms that stay open until 5pm. But they'll probably find that they don't make anywhere near as much money as they think they will!

I agree. Small cafes are one of the lease successful business ventures - I've seen statistics showing they're one of the types of businesses most likely to fold within the first couple of years! That's because a lot of people with no experience think they're "little gold mines" because they charge £1.50 for a cup of tea when a tea bag costs 5p! Look on business sale websites and there's loads of them - far more than any other kind of business. It's because people buy them thinking it's a "lifestyle" business and then realise it's hard work for barely minimum wage and they quickly put them back on the market and hope to sell them and get their money back by selling to some other mug!

We've a "little gold mine" near us on the shore. When you drive or walk past, it's always busy. Funny thing is that it comes back onto the market with either local estate agents or a business sales website every couple of years! I've been the accountant for a couple of the owners over the years so know "the books" and it's never even managed to make minimum wage for the owners! Once a potential client came in for a meeting to ask for advice on buying it, i.e. whether it was worth the money, etc - I couldn't tell them what I knew from my previous clients due to client confidentiality, but I pulled the figures apart that they'd been given, did a few pessimistic forecasts and they soon got the message it wasn't viable bearing in mind the asking price!

Closing the tearooms st four is bonkers. The song says so:

Every nation in creation has its favorite drink
France is famous for its wine; it's beer in Germany
Turkey has its coffee, and they serve it blacker than ink
Russians go for vodka, and England loves its tea

Oh, the fact'ries may be roaring
With a boomalacka zoomalacka whee
But there isn't any roar when the clocks strike four
Everything stops for tea

Oh, a lawyer in the courtroom
In the middle of an alimony plea
Has to stop and help 'em pour when the clock strikes four
Everything stops for tea

It's a very good English custom
Though the weather be cold or hot
When you need a little pick-up, you'll find a little teacup
Will always hit the spot

You remember Cleopatra
Had a date to meet Marc Antony at three
When he came an hour late, she said you'll have to wait
For everything stops for tea

Oh, they may be playing football
And the crowd is yelling "Kill the referee"
But no matter what the score, when the clock strikes four
Everything stops for tea

Oh, the golfer may be golfing
And is just about to make a hole-in-three
But it always gets them sore when the clock yells four
Everything stops for tea

It's a very good English custom
And a stimulant for the brain
When you feel a weary, a cup'll make you cheery
And it's cheaper than champagne

Now I know just why Franz Schubert
Didn't finish his Unfinished Symphony
He might have written more but the clock struck four
And everything stopped for tea

DM and I have often spoken about this. We seem to be the only country in the world where cafes shut so early. I love that one of Starbucks is open til midnight to sit in and often meet friends for a coffee and a blether in the evening, and it is always busy until at least 10pm. We don’t want to go to the pub so this is perfect. We would rather support a local independent, of which there are many, but none are open.

I suspect that part of this is not upsetting the staff. Costa / Pret / most chains use a bunch of young, foreign people and students - they can schedule all sorts of weird, awkward shifts. A small place in a village or small town relies on middle aged women who want to be home by 5:30pm (say). If they piss off their staff, they may not be able to recruit enough people.

A friend used to manage a small branch of a bank (now since shut down). He always said that the one thing you mustn’t do is upset the middle-aged-to-older women who actually kept your branch going.

Our two village coffee shops closed down since this thread started. Both owners had a rant on the local FB group about how business was shite.

One coffee shop opened sporadically- nobody knew their opening hours. It was more like a midlife mummy project.

The second, was open between 10 - 2pm on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays.

They asked for village feedback and then didn't like being told the opening hours was silly. 🤣 both complained that they didn't have enough business to pay rent. (Well, Duh!) Both replied to each and every scathing review on TripAdvisor.

Our local newspaper picked up on the story which created even more bad press for them. One is now being reopened as a cafe and gift shop.

The other is becoming a bakery!

The thing is, you can't really compare chains and independents. Chains have much more buying power than independents and can buy stuff at a much lower cost - therefore they can have lower prices and as they have the backing of head office and thousands of other stores, they don't really need to worry about whether it might be a bit quiet on a Tuesday afternoon in February.

Nail on the head, just like the closures of thousands of small independent shops. It’s not a level playing field.

I've always been envious of Americans having all night Diners that serve any kind of food you like as well as coffee and desserts.

Shops in this country in general close far too early, just as people are finishing work. They should open until 8, 9, 10pm like shops on the continent do.

@Florenz yes but a lot of the continental shops close in the heat of the afternoon and open again later (when it's cooler/after dinner). Would the British really change their habits so much - can you imagine the whinging of M&S was closed from 1-4pm?

I used to work in a clothes shop that stayed open until 6pm six days a week.

They made, on average, less than £20 in the final hour of the day. They paid out approximately £60 in wages, plus electricity, heating etc. It wasn't profitable and they now close at 5pm

The same town also used to do "late night shopping" once a week on a Thursday - they stopped because they made practically no money, even in tourist season. It was a total waste of time for everyone concerned.

You can't compare what people do on the continent to what they do here. The lifestyles and the way things are set up are completely different.

Yep, my favourite local cafe closes at 2.30pm now! It's ridiculously early.

I used to work in our family newsagents which was a typical "corner" shop, back in the 70s, 80s and 90s. When we first bought it, we trialled opening longer hours, such as up to 7/8 in the evening and Sunday afternoons. There was basically no customers coming - just the odd person, and we barely covered the cost of the electric to light and heat it! We tried it for a few months to see if customers would get into the "habit", but no, they weren't interested.

We tried it again in later years, such as Saturday evening later opening when the National Lottery started for people to buy their lottery tickets just ahead of the draw, but even then, barely anyone came in. In fact despite always opening until 6pm on Saturday afternoons, it was always completely dead, right from lunchtime. We only stayed open because of the old late football newspaper with the footie results, which came around 5.45, for which we'd have a queue of customers waiting outside for the van, who'd buy the paper and go again (never bought anything else) and it was dead again by 6.00.

More recently, the bakery/pie shop in our village changed hands. The new people lengthened the daily opening times from 2pm to 4pm to "get the school trade", and took a stall selling pies to the school Summer fayre, and also re-opened on Bonfire night 5pm to 8pm as the village has a very popular fireworks display (literally thousands of people). They only did it once. They sold barely anything despite a regular stream of people passing by. Our village fish & chip shop actually close on bonfire night because they do less trade than on a normal Saturday tea time due to the village being so busy and the road being clogged by parked cars for the fireworks.

At the end of the day, the owners of these businesses would open longer if it were worthwhile and feasible to do so. It's very easy for people with no experience to look in from the outside and think they know best, but perhaps they should actually try it for themselves if they think they can do it better?

It takes time for people's habits to change. And it needs to be all the shops, or at least most of them. One shop staying open when all the other shops are shut isn't going to work, people won't realise it is still open.

Out of town supermarkets open until late, and high street stores are always moaning about losing trade to the out of town shops. This is the perfect solution or at least it would help.

Now you've identified a niche try your idea with your money. Those on here who work in or own shops will be interested to see how you fare. Europe is different and we aren't in Europe now. Shops in London, Paris, Rome may open later but not in Sidcup, Mold or Grassington

Lots of dessert type places opening up recently in our suburban neighbourhood, presumably for non-drinkers. They stay open till late. I wish the nice tea and cake places were open late instead.

"They should open until 8, 9, 10pm like shops on the continent do."

Which part of the continent? Shops in Brussels are open until 6 or 7 depending on the area of town and the day. Not open at all on Sundays. They don't open until 10 so no chance of getting something on your way to work.

Europe is different and we aren't in Europe now

We're not in the E.U now unfortunately but we're still in Europe, unless someone moved us overnight.

I think a lot of independent businesses open because they want the dream of working when it suits them but in reality don't bring in enough money to pay a living wage hence heavy reliance on mums and students and young people who traditionally do any job for peanuts because it fits in.
A cafe local to me opens for two mornings, one in the week and one at the weekend . Makes me wonder if their money laundering!
Would be better if all those coffee and tea shop owners moaning on fb admitted they overshot themselves , the dream doesn't work in reality and that they arent unique in terms of what they sell: their cakes, location etc isn't enough to keep us coming back during their very niche hours to find they've shut yet again.
It's hard when big costas etc have all the business but we end up relying on them, as we do tesco over the local shop because we know they will be open when we want and expect them to even if the produce often isn't as nice.
Independent businesses have traded too long on being small and independent and niche artisan etc
I've been to many places where the customer service is dire, they're grumpy, brisk etc and moaning about customers, about rivals, about costs of running an independent, defending their higher prices 'because youre buying from a small business' , 'youre paying for our childs ballet lessons' or whatever the latest meme tells us...
I can't afford their luxury goods or inflated priced items anymore and no amount of guilt tripping social media posts will make me want an artisan loaf at £6 a pop.
I have to work a salaried job I don't particularly like for bosses I don't particularly trust at times I don't particularly want to.
This is because I need a regular income.

this is my choice and every small business owner who can't or won't work for somebody else, won't pay staff a living wage shouldnt complain because some of us want a hot drink or bite to eat outside of the home after 2.30pm