Archetype Podcast Ep ‘The Demystification of Dragon Lady’

[RandomPenguinHouse]

I was having a discussion about this particular episode and the stereotype (NOT archetype!) it discusses on another thread in another section. I and some others thought that Meghan Markle’s introduction of it was tokenism. Many other posters were dismissive of that, calling it ‘tokenism nonsense’. This is despite myself and at least one other poster saying we were Asian/of East Asian culture.

So I’m taking the discussion over to here and opening it up. I’d love to hear others’ views of this episode specially and the representation of East Asian women in film & TV generally.

I’ll add a transcript shortly.

IMPORTANT CORRECTION!:
This bit I wrote is confusing, sorry:

"Instead Meghan says that she wasn't aware of the stigmas and stereotypes that boxed in Asian women. She wasn't aware of it. And she or her staff should have been."

That sounds like she should have been aware of the stigmas and stereotypes. No, it's perfectly reasonable that she wasn't. What I meant by 'she wasn't aware of it' is that she and her staff weren't aware that they had started of the podcast with stereotypes of their own. They used those stereotypes to precede a comment about how she wasn't aware of the stigmas and stereotypes that affected her guests and (East) Asian women in general. That's not cool.

Thank you for sharing your take on it. Especially the highlighting of how the anecdote actually reinforces the stereotype of East Asians working in the service industries, such as catering - certainly given me something to think about.

Thanks @Jibbajabba1 , do read my (rather pompously titled) correction above, as I didn't make an important point clearly.

With the increasing globalisation of the cinema and the increasing importance of the various asian markets, do you think it will force the studios to stop using lazy inaccurate asian female stereotypes, so is misogyny so ingrained across the world, it will continue to be acceptable to use them.

Lookint st the last Marvel blockbuster for example , ( 7 rings) are you happier with the female characters

or corrected to so for some reason, in case it’s not fear ‘or is misogyny….’

Crazy Rich Asians is a huge step in the right direction absolutely because of being such a box office hit and both main characters (and indeed all) being East Asian.

Although CRA is also a few steps forwards and one step backwards backwards. Briefly:
incredibly wealthy Asians is its own stereotype;
upset from some that the main male lead is half-Chinese not fully Chinese; different East Asian nationalities playing Singaporean Chinese;
Awkafina's blaccent in (see below) and having the only South Asian characters properly seen in the film be guards who only say a word or two.

Awkwafina would have been positive if not for her put on 'blaccent' which is problematic and was a controversy. She said some rather stupid things about it.
so that was reductive.

Yes absolutely the studios aren't using lazy inaccurate asian female stereotypes as much if even arguably at all... There's been a huge increase in representation even since Crazy Rich Asians which wasn't that long ago. Which, btw, I watched at a special cinema viewing with lots of East Asian people and allies, as it was a big cause for celebration!

I don't watch Marvel blockbusters but from what I hear, yes the female characters are much better.

Thank you @RandomPenguinHouse I never knew all of this, I'm not into many films so it never occurred to me.

Pleasure!

I’ve 8-12 year olds so marvel films are my reality

Ha! @Ohnonevermind

Btw Someone on the 'Positive' Archetypes thread in The Royal Family section tagged me asking me a Q, so I spent time writing a response and then pressed post, only to find the thread was deleted. This was the deletion message:

"This thread has been deleted
We've noticed a lot of sockpuppeting on this thread. Additionally we've received a number of reports. With this in mind, we've taken it down."

Interesting. And so not surprising.

I had to google ‘sockpuppeting’

I loved the market in Crazy rich Asians (covered the food) and googled all about it, has anyone been ? Is it as amazing as portrayed

Ah just as everyone suspected! There was a horrible racist and bullying under tone too. Very glad to see Mumsnet have taken action 🦾

Yes, I have, used to live in Singapore.

It totally is as amazing as portrayed. I miss the food in Singapore a lot.

You must miss it a lot, it looks gorgeous , Singapore looks like an amazing city. Do you get back at all ?
I’d love to eat in the market - it’s on my bucket list

I haven't been back to Singapore for years. I didn't live there long. I lived much longer elsewhere in Southeast Asia and I go back to the region regularly. Or at least... did pre Covid!!!

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-new-meghan-markle-podcast-is-about-the-word-crazy-and-it-s-barking-mad

I posted this in the other thread , but think it probably should be on this one!

I've just read that @MidnightConstellation and I Have Thoughts...

Do tell!!

I am also interested in your thoughts about it.

OK, well I wish it wasn't written by a man. That loses points for me, because it's a man saying that a podcast about women being called crazy is... crazy.

Having said that, IMO he doesn't punch down, only up, and has a great writing style. "Wu is gently despatched" really made me laugh.

I think he probably nailed the tone, I could 'hear' it, and assuming that everything he said is true, then Meghan sounds very self-absorbed in it.

I think it sounds a shallow episode. Apart from the guests' experiences I don't think there's anything there I didn't know. And them not exploring how 'crazy' is in the title of 'crazy rich asians' really annoys me. Not because it's about East Asians, but because it is so obvious that it's idiotic that they didn't.

I thought the same thing about the reviewer being male, I will wait for the transcript and have a listen.

I’ll read the transcript - not listen 🤣

On a serious note, I'm not going to listen or read it at the moment because of the suicidal ideation it discusses so I'm interested in the thoughts of any one who has/does.

So I did listen to the Crazy episode. I also have, sadly, to much experience with mental health and suicide. So while I can not relate to the previous episodes relating to Asain American culture, this is something I can speak to.

She did not sound at all self absorbed in this episode. Quite the opposite actually. She seemed to be gently supportive of other women who she had something in common with, feeling suicidal.

I also am glad for the short discussion of medical gaslighting because I have experienced that many times, mostly by men but sometimes by women.