Teaching assistants quitting schools for supermarkets because of 'joke wages'

[noblegiraffe]

Finally getting some mainstream press attention:

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/oct/09/teaching-assistants-quitting-schools-for-supermarkets-because-of-joke-wages

The article is very clear that schools cannot afford to pay higher wages for support staff. The DfE comment at the bottom says it is up to schools to improve support staff pay.

The education sector is falling apart. Teacher redundancies mean bigger class sizes. Fewer teaching assistants means zero in-class support unless your child has an EHCP. Recruitment issues mean that even if your child has an EHCP, they might not be able to hire anyone to support them.

The way provision for the most vulnerable students has been eroded over the last decade of school underfunding is devastating.

However the rest is just teaching. I could just as easily ask what the TA does that means he / she can access it. Whatever they can do, the teacher can do too.

I don't know about you, but I'm usually teaching, or helping other pupils. I've been in large classes where the class have barely needed me in the room when working, I've also taught classes of under 10 pupils where three adults has sometimes felt like not enough.

I'd be interested to know what subject you teach.

If there can be 228,000 responses to the same sex marriage consultation then there can be more than 6,000 responses to the SEN green paper.

👏 yes!

I think it is probably far easier to get responses to a same sex marriage consultation than it is to questions like "Consultation Question 3: What factors would enable local authorities to successfully commission provision for low-incidence high cost need, and further education, across local authority boundaries?" Or "Consultation Question 5: How can parents and local authorities most effectively work together to produce a tailored list of placements that is appropriate for their child, and gives parents’ confidence in the EHCP process?"

I looked at the consultation and didn't respond because I don't know the answers to those questions.

How many of the 228,000 responses to the same sex one were something just like "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" or whatever?

Controversial government consultations also get spam responses where lots of people are encouraged to submit the same response. This doesn't actually affect the outcome, they are merely grouped together.

I agree, it probably is/was easier to get responses, but are you seriously suggesting only 6,000 people had to ability to respond? Because of course that’s not true. Some of the questions were more technical, but not all of them.

There probably were some “silly” (insert other word of choice) responses in the 228,000 but it is highly unlikely 222,000 were, or anywhere near that number.

@cantkeepawayforever - no need to apologise!

I agree it is a fight to get an EHCP unfortunately - and it’s very unfair that those children who have parents who are able to access the system and fight do get funding ( getting my child his EHCp nearly broke me, and I’m a lawyer so at least have some understanding). Additionally not enough schools challenge councils when they don’t fully fund section F’s of EHCP.

My DC’s 1:1 support has transformed his ability to access learning ( along with medication). Interestingly he did have a fantastic teacher for 2 years who did her best, worked hard to work him out and meant he was happy being at school during those two years ( it then fell apart very badly with the next teacher resulting in anxiety, PTSD and school refusal). But even she couldn’t support him in accessing g learning fully ( understandably as she had a whole class to teach!).

Now he has a 1:1 he is able to access the curriculum again and is catching up. His 1:1 is also able to teach him strategies to access learning on his own - so he is increasingly gaining independence in learning and able to start work and complete it on his own, applying the strategies he is being helped with. As a result his anxiety has dropped and many of his OCD behaviours have disappeared in school. I’m very lucky to have a brilliant TA ( who I completely agree isn’t paid enough. And it’s tragic that so many of these children’s experiences are down to chance)

Oh and to your point re TAs who are men who’ve been similar as children being the ones that help the disruptive ADHD boys - that is exactly my experience!

Jesus Christ. Or we could, you know, adequately fund our public services from taxation. Burn the commie

but are you seriously suggesting only 6,000 people had to ability to respond?

No, but it’s entirely possible that they were happy with the response given by their professional body on their behalf and saw no need to construct their own response repeating the same points, particularly given how long it takes to do properly.

It’s a government consultation not an online petition.

You still won’t convince me 6,000 is a good number of responses. There are more than 6,000 people who have a vested interest in the SEN system who don’t have a professional body to respond on their behalf that could have responded. Even a consultation about forest risk commodities received 16,838 responses. The lack of SEND responses is in keeping with society’s wider views and treatment of disabled people.


It’s a government consultation not an online petition.

I didn’t say anything to the contrary.

"The consultation ran from 3 December 2021 to 11 March 2022 and received a total of 16,838 responses, of which 16,682 were received via two campaigns."

So lots of repetition then.

I see that on MN at least one charity noted that it would be incredibly time-consuming for parents to respond to the SEND consultation so were doing a survey and responding on their behalf. You'd prefer quantity than quality though?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4557065-send-review-have-your-say

You'd prefer quantity than quality though?

Where on earth did I say that? The two aren’t mutually exclusive. But of course if something is time consuming one shouldn’t bother, even if important.

Just because many responses were from 2 campaigns doesn’t mean they all repeated the same things, nor that they were any less valid.

But of course if something is time consuming one shouldn’t bother, even if important.

as I pointed out, that charity realised it was time-consuming and so was simplifying the process and submitting a response on behalf of parents (who I assume were one of those groups you were referring to when you talked about those with no professional body to represent them). They aren't the only ones who did this. You seem to prefer that every individual submit their own response even though it isn't a numbers game and 16,000 responses that say the same thing doesn't have 16,000 times more impact, they just get grouped together.

Yes, and as I pointed out I still think 6,000 responses is pitiful. You don’t agree, which as I also posted is fine. I was including parents, other professionals whose bodies won’t/didn’t reply on their behalf, other charities that also didn’t respond, other services involved with children and young people… I never said is was a numbers game, that was your incorrect assumption, but if people are horrified by the state of the system, in my opinion, they should take the time to respond. Again you don’t agree, and that is fine, we don’t all have to have the same opinion after all. You don’t know the 16,000 responses said the same thing. Just because they were the result of 2 campaigns doesn’t mean they all said the same.

In lots of schools, the TAs were parents of children who go to the school and often got the TA positions (I guess you could say via the back door) by either becoming a parent helper, being very active on the PTA or becoming a midday supervisor. It wasn't often that a TA would appear without having some sort of link to the school in those ways.

Back to the TAs with phones and SLT not doing anything - it's probably because they can't prove they weren't doing schoolwork. We have recently been told we all need to use our own internet enabled smartphones (which they assume we own, also using our memory etc) to use various apps for school which we have to update and use to communicate throughout the day. School can't afford the tech but want us to use it. (Yes, some staff are kicking back at this, so far unsuccessfully. A lot of staff have just decided they have other bigger battles to fight like having the budget to buy exercise books, and accepted it).

but if people are horrified by the state of the system, in my opinion, they should take the time to respond

It is perfectly possible to be horrified by the state of the SEN system and yet actually not have anything to offer in response to the questions asked in the consultation.

Questions like "Do you consider the current remedies available to the SEND Tribunal for disabled children who have been discriminated against by schools effective in putting children and young people’s education back on track? Please give a reason for your answer with examples, if possible."

They are not questions that everyone can answer. Suggesting that if you didn't respond, you can't care is just totally ignoring that it was quite a technical consultation.

I teach in ks1. Without a TA in my classroom during maths the whole lesson fails for everyone. How can I possibly support...

Child A who has severe anxiety and needs coaxing to join the lessons
Child B who has very little English and cannot understand the task
Child C who cannot access the lesson at all and needs very carefully differentiated plans that bare little resemblance to what is being taught
Child D who arrives late and has no idea what to do
Child E who is brilliant at Maths but possible dyslexic so cannot read the work.
Plus 27 other children. This is my reality this year.

I'm a brilliant teacher but without my TA I cannot possibly support everyone.

I have not posted people who didn’t respond don’t care. Again, not all the questions required technical answers. For example “What components of the EHCP should we consider reviewing or amending as we move to a standardised and digitised version?” anyone who has had anything to do with EHCPs could have responded in whatever detail they felt able to. And the more in depth questions could be answered at a more superficial level if that is what the respondent felt comfortable with.

I have not posted people who didn’t respond don’t care.

You said:

The lack of SEND responses is in keeping with society’s wider views and treatment of disabled people.

Which is insinuating that people didn't respond individually because they don't care about disabled people. Not that because they were happy with an organisation responding on their behalf, and not because they didn't have any answers to the questions asked. I would have no idea how to answer that EHCP question either.

Which is insinuating that people didn't respond individually because they don't care about disabled people.

No it’s not. It is saying society as a whole doesn’t advocate for disabled people, which they don’t. That is not necessarily the same thing as don’t care, although I’m sure there is a subset of the population to which that applies.

I would have no idea how to answer that EHCP question either.

I struggle to believe anyone who has read EHCPs doesn’t have an opinion on how they can be improved.

I haven't read EHCPs.

Are you saying you haven’t read the EHCPs of any of your students?

Yes, I'm saying that I haven't read the EHCPs of any of my students. I don't have access to them.

Very poor practice.