Teaching assistants quitting schools for supermarkets because of 'joke wages'

[noblegiraffe]

Finally getting some mainstream press attention:

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/oct/09/teaching-assistants-quitting-schools-for-supermarkets-because-of-joke-wages

The article is very clear that schools cannot afford to pay higher wages for support staff. The DfE comment at the bottom says it is up to schools to improve support staff pay.

The education sector is falling apart. Teacher redundancies mean bigger class sizes. Fewer teaching assistants means zero in-class support unless your child has an EHCP. Recruitment issues mean that even if your child has an EHCP, they might not be able to hire anyone to support them.

The way provision for the most vulnerable students has been eroded over the last decade of school underfunding is devastating.

I would rather contribute specifically to my children’s school (and do, via a monthly direct debit to the PTA as well as volunteering at fund-raising events

This cannot be a model for school funding because it means that schools in already advantaged communities will benefit, and those serving more disadvantaged communities will lose out even more.

PTA money also can't be used for school running costs.

@110APiccadilly - have you even read the thread? That’s the whole point… Given the move to working from home and flexibility, women (and it’s always women) no longer need to take these badly paid jobs. As PPs have said, and the article makes clear, they can’t recruit for love nor money. But carry on with your ‘these jobs are like gold dust’ illusion 🙄

Dan Moynihan CEO of Harris Federation is paid £450,000 a year in his not-for-profit trust with 4 other staff on £200k+

Interesting that per pupil he's one of the lowest earners despite his high wage.

I am an ex TA. When I retire I will happily volunteer in schools to listen to children read. I will NOT volunteer to cover classes or have children hit me / spit at me / throw things at me. I
DID NOT get paid for 12 weeks holiday when I was a TA.

And to those who think it doesn’t matter if all TAs disappear - good luck to your kids if they do …

I read the article rather than the thread. The comparison being made there was with supermarkets.

We need to remove the cancer that is agencies. Every time a school hires via an agency they pay a huge amount to the agency and the staff member receives a much smaller amount in pay. Governments should support schools to find staff and frankly they should support school staff to be placed in schools and also with training. If the government directly got support staff into schools rather than allowing taxes to be funnelled into private agencies they could also offer further training in schools, it would be a good way of training new teachers which we so desperately need. Oh and use some of the money saved to actually pay teachers properly so they don't leave in droves.

There is a misunderstanding of what the job is here from some. TAs do not just listen to kids read and put up displays anymore. They do lots of interventions with small groups. They often work with very challenging children. Why would people want to do this for low pay and little prospect of pay progression? Why would a volunteer do this? The perception of a TA as a parent helper is simply out of date.

They won't get that in a school either.

Teachers don't either. Have a look at the burgundy book. Teachers, just like TAs are paid term time only plus minimum statutory holiday pay.

THIS. The TA is getting £10 an hour but the school is paying £20-30 an hour and the agency is pocketing the difference. Why can’t there be a government agency for recruiting teachers?

Imagine how badly run a government agency for supply staff would be though!

As I have posted before on thus thread - the agency issue myst be school or location specific, as where I work, absence us covered internally until such point as there are not enough adults (of any job role) to stand in front of classes. In particular, absent TAs, or where a TA has not been recruited to work 1:1 with a child with an EHCP, are not covered at all, with existing staff only being reshuffled fir children with physical care needs.

To do my job as a TA to support pupils needs I've had to learn makaton, learn to Braile, use moon , OofC , Pecs, mobility training , hoisting, how to feed a child orally and tube feeding.,how to give meds, complete the correct forms etc trained in SKIP and safeguarding plus diversity training
Do all personal needs such as changing pads and sanitary towels, help pupils change for swimming and PE
I had to liaise with parents and attend appointments (on site)with outside agencies/parents
Complete home/school books every day
That's not including autism training and other courses .
Having a volunteer however lovely is a pain . They end up babysitting the pupils . They can't be left alone with them even to escort them from their transport, I for one would not want my child's personal needs seen to by a stranger
I got 1/2 hour unpaid lunch break
It wasn't I means to any other career , I genuinely loved it but got pissed off when SM kept trying to extend our personal targets as we had to try a justify/evidence what we could do with photos which took time away from the pupils, if we couldn't we got no one off payment
All for less than £10 an hour
So yes I can see why people are leaving

Most people volunteer to get experience and or skills to get into paid employment so I can’t imagine many volunteers staying for very long especially when children may have complex needs and there may be multiple children in any class with those needs some of which may be violent.

support staff are very much underpaid and take a lot of abuse whilst doing a job that is often above their pay grade without complaint.

the wages are definitely a government problem due to schools being massively under funded- if they weren’t maybe they would have the money to pay their staff for the job they do rather than the job description they are supposed to do

There’s a entry fee local authority museum near me who also tried to be ‘volunteer run’. It didn’t work. People don’t work because they don’t feel like it, they’re busy, bit unwell, weather is bad. It was closed all the time.
I don’t think people realise it can be hard to manage volunteers as well, it can be a difficult balance of keeping them happy and keeping them in line.
Ive worked with volunteers who only want to do what they want to do. And to be honest it’s kinda fine, it’s their time. They often come for the social aspect so want to spend time chatting and having lunch. If you push them they often walk.

Thank you, @rongon , for the informative reply. It’s so true that everyone is losing out - the children needing extra support, those who can’t learn because the children needing extra support aren’t getting it, and the TAs doing a thankless and tough job for a pittance 😞

I actually can't believe so many people think volunteers are the answer.

Volunteers might do 2/3 mornings or afternoons a week and they'll enjoy the feel good factor it gives them. That provides a balance between feeling useful, time to see friends, do other hobbies and rest.

You'll be unlikely to get volunteers to do 5 full days a week. That's far too much of a commitment.

The majority of volunteers are retired, the retirement age is 67? People retire because they aren't able to keep the pace in work and need time to rest. And many will want to take advantage of off peak holidays you can't tell volunteers not to take holidays.

There's a weird fetishisation of volunteers in society generally. I've been posting on a charity thread and there's a lot of that on display there too. Volunteers are great, I volunteer, but in order to run things properly you need the key jobs done by people who have more skin in the game. Ie contracts and wages. And who aren't going to (completely understandably!) want to go off and get a paid job once they've got some experience and connections.

Exactly volunteers are in it for a reason, young people might be using it as a stepping stone to paid employment. Older people because they want the social aspects, little or no pressure.

If a role requires skills that role needs to be paid and paid appropriately. The TAs can't be getting paid much more than the school cleaners. It just doesn't make any sense.

I’m a TA - let me tell you about my day today and ask you if a volunteer would do this?
im paid from 9, but I arrived at 8.35 because I need to talk to my teacher first thing as we don’t have any ‘catch up’ time in the day otherwise. During registration I did some paperwork, then I took two spelling intervention groups for children working 2 or 3 years behind where they ‘should’ be.
after that I provided small group support for English until break time - next was maths where I had the top group (6 kids) to expand and push their problems solving skills, while the teacher worked with the rest of the class going over things previously covered.
next was lunch (unpaid) but I spent part of it doing the maths marking from my group, and part dealing with a kid having a meltdown. I ate my soup one handed while marking.
after lunch was art (I’m now covered in paint) and providing behavioural support to the teacher, and subsequently the child, who threw a chair, spat at the teacher and then called me a ‘fucking bitch’ for asking him to do his work rather than scribble on the work of the child sat next to him.
next I had playground duty which luckily today it wasn’t raining but it usually is!
after break I grabbed a bit of planning time for tomorrows interventions (maths and phonics).

im paid minimum wage, I genuinely don’t think a volunteer would do this - I wouldn’t dodge flying furniture for free! (‘Good use of alliteration Mrs Fancie have a dojo point’) and I think I deserve more than minimum wage - even more so my colleagues who work one on one with a violent non verbal child in reception, who frankly has the patience of a Saint.

anyone who thinks working as a TA is just cutting things out and listening to kids read is very mistaken, I can’t believe the things I do for the money I get paid!

good job I love the kids, is t it?

@FrenchFancie you most definitely do deserve more than the minimum wage

@FrenchFancie 100% you deserve to be paid more than minimum wage. The work you do is so important, and all those children you helped would get a poorer educational experience if you were not there. And the whole class would miss out whilst the teacher dealt with one student, as well.

Volunteers aren't the same- you can't ensure full coverage, you can't necessarily ensure they'll be there for the long term. As others have said, many people volunteer for the social aspect, and you often don't get that in schools.

I think some people mentioned how organisations like guides/scouts struggle to get volunteers who will commit to one evening a week- it's even harder to get people to commit to set times during the normal working day.

The answer is definitely to pay TAs properly, and ensure they are properly supported and valued. But schools need to be given the money to do this.

Agencies are not the issue, they really aren't.

Because people shouldn't have to work for free.

Agencies are not typically used in mainstream to find TAs. In mainstream, if a TA isn't in then the kids are in class without support. Any intervention is cancelled and people have to do the best they can.