Waiting for an ambulance

[BigcatLittlecat]

I called an ambulance for my elderly mother at 4.45. Got told it's a long wait and to not call back. She fell off her bed and think she has broken her hip. She's in a lot of pain. What can I do, apart from call 999 back?

I am 78 and have never voted Conservative in my life ( just saying). Things were ticking along ok till Covid which filled the hospitals, killed staff as well as patients, made GPS inaccessible and created an expectation of negative health care.

Previous NHS staff

yes it was far far better a service under labour government. Labour isn’t trying to contract public services - this government is. Expect less and less if you continue to vote for these crooks

Sadly it's happening everywhere. A relative of mine had a fall and a suspected broken hip, waited 8 hours for an ambulance. Turned out hip was not broken but she was in a lot of pain!

Do you mean they didn't steal it?

From the point of view of someone who worked back office NHS from 2006-2021 - it really wasn’t. The ten+ years preceding covid the NHS was functioning but barely scraping into that category by the skin of their teeth. Covid exposed it to wider scrutiny but I firmly believe we’d be here had it not happened anyway.

Yes, there is a shortage of carers generally but in our area no one can get a long term package of care on discharge unless they go privately.

The vast majority of long term care is provided by the Private sector, so residential care and home care, even those people who are eligible for funding via the LA will have their care provided by the private sector.
Short term re-enablement services are provided by the LA via social services or the NHS via supportive discharge schemes, but these only provide very short term assistance ( a few weeks, with a maximum of up to 6 ) and are spread incredibly thinly at the moment. Areas that are largely rural really struggle due to travel times between visits.

It really is a shocking case of bed blocking that is only going to get worse, I work in healthcare and am a student nurse and I just try not to think about it too much as it is just so frustrating but I love my job

I am in a rural area with a high number of elderly that outstrips the younger generation that lives here, we have had 3 care homes close in the past couple of years due to not sorting themselves out as requested by the care commission. Really short sighted just to close them as there is no care at home available and now hardly any residential/nursing homes for people to go into so what on earth is going to be like in the years to come?

You have all my sympathy OP, and I hope the ambulance has arrived and your mum is getting the care she needs.

My DMIL fell out of bed 10 days ago, in a care home, fractured her femur and arm, but waited 26 hours for an ambulance. She's since had surgery and is looking increasingly poorly in hospital.

There’s also a pandemic to recover from that will take years but we’re expected to double our service and pretend like covid never happened.

Even if people have private healthcare there is, as far as I know, no private A and E units in private hospitals.

So all patients will be using A and E and ambulances if they need them.

It's scary, and the Winter is coming.

@Mosaic123 you are correct if you pay for something privately and something goes wrong the NHS will do any emergency care

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii so are you suggesting that providers deemed inadequate by the "CQC should remain open and continue to provide inadequate and unsafe care? That's quite startling from an hcp if so.

What I don't understand about the ambulance/stacking issue is why they can't introduce peripatetic paramedics to go to the scene and at least administer pain relief while people wait. If there are 10 ambulances waiting in the queue, that means there are 20 staff waiting. Why can't five of those jump in a "pool" vehicle and get to those in pain who need to be picked up later? The NHS always finds a way not to do something rather than a way to do it.

@RosesAndHellebores not what I am saying at all but more support could be given and other agency involvement rather than just closing? Surely better thinking could go into these things with the huge shortage in social care as it is at the moment, these people in those homes will now struggle to find other placements whilst pushing those further down the queue who were already waiting for placements

Bearing in mind how long it took Shropshire and Telford to be exposed I can only imagine how bad things were for them to close.

Respectfully, I think you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Fast response lone paramedics to assess and issue stabilising treatment already exist. There isn’t enough, they’re designed to compliment a functioning full ambulance service.

Existing ambulances aren’t designed to carry and support multiple patients. Stabilising a very sick or injured person in a vehicle needs close attention.

What you’re talking about is a (very dangerous) reduction in expectations of care. I’m not sure if it qualifies as battlefield healthcare but it can’t be far off. Is that an appropriate response to circumstances that do appear to have some solutions that just aren’t being funded?

Agreed - also ex-front line NHS staff, finally left this year to go to the private sector as had enough of the poor, often unsafe, working conditions and relatively poor pay - there was only so long I'd put up with that so thought I'd leave before the next pandemic.

Fully expect to be flamed as I get paid more than someone working in a bar and should be grateful - in which case they can do the two degrees and professional qualification I did and work their way up over many years - should take around 10 years (minimum) - good luck to them!

I obviously don’t know the ins and outs but these home are fairly regularly visited and if points have not been addressed continually it leads to this, it isn’t always just bad care either it’s an accumulation of things such as not completing paperwork or keeping care plans up to date, as far as I know none of them was abuse but due to ongoing staff shortages they will just take on whoever applies and these people are not always well suited to caring for others or being aware of others needs. I agree they shouldn’t just be left to carry on but just closing the homes isn’t going to help with the social care issues either. Real lack of leadership and joined up thinking

@Cornettoninja yes, it's a response to a crisis in care but it would raise delivery from zero to something constructive and that helped people who otherwise would be in agonising pain for endless hours.

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii in a nutshell: lack of leadership and joined up thinking throughout the NHS. Let me give you an example. I have severe osteoporosis. 5 breaks in five years despite a full course of zolendronate. The optimal treatment recommends teriparitide which is not available for under 65s. I am 62 so paying £2500 for a two year course. I am still working and another fractured vertebrae could render me incapable if doing so and unable to contribute via tax and ni. But it's a NICE decision in response to a NICE recommendation. NICE also recommends that a dorsally displaced radial fracture shoukd not be reduces with gas and air alone. My local hospital ignores that guideline because NICE only gives recommendations. Funny how the NHS can ignore a guideline to save money bit can't do so if it involves spending it.

Joined up thinking indeed.

@RosesAndHellebores but the places that were closed down will have been private providers.

I wonder if people will start using private ambulances more.

@BirmaBrite I imagine most of theirbfunding came through the Local Authority and residents were not settling their accounts personally.

I do agree that far more NHS elderly care beds are needed. When my grandmother had advanced alzheimers she was placed in a MH unit for people with Alzheimers/dementia with nurses available at all times. She was based there on the basis of clinical rather than social need. Nevertheless, even in 1994 mother and grandad visited daily to ensure her care was 360°. Those facilities no longer exist. They closed after 1997. Not everything Blair did was beyond scrutiny.

‘My local hospital ignores that guideline because NICE only gives recommendations. Funny how the NHS can ignore a guideline to save money bit can't do so if it involves spending it.’

Indeed.

NICE published guidelines about improving & future proofing Social Care for Adults. A crucial outcome to be that a better social care employment ‘market’ would be an overall improvement of services & resources, & a benefit to be fewer people waiting so long to be discharged from general hospitals into home based or dedicated residential social care.

Just guidelines…

Yes I meant didnt steal. Wish I could edit the comment