So taxes and stamp duty are going to be cut to ensure that we get economic growth...

[cakeorwine]

People with more money get even more money.
They use this money to start businesses, buy things and stimulate demand and growth.
So people at the bottom get more money and more money comes in through taxes.

It's going to be an interesting few years. We have low unemployment and a lot of people who just aren't looking for jobs. We have also made it harder for people to come from abroad and work here.

We are borrowing a LOT of money because of the energy crisis.
Our population is ageing and we are facing a social care crisis.

It's certainly a difference of politics. And not in the Tory manifesto.

I’d like to see the latest OBR report which the government are refusing to share.

That's because it is bonkers.
But remember, it is the will of the people.

Well actually not - the will of a very tiny cohort of Tory party members

not the will of the Tory MP’s, not in the manifesto from the last GE

if she has any guts she WOULD put it to the people. But we all know she won’t because she knows what will happen.

On a personal level I fucking hate SDLT

but I want to buy and if we get a repeat of the craziness of the 2020 period, I probably can't. Argh.

I think Liz has been googling “How to be a Tory PM”

War, pandemic, climate change - and her priority is bankers’ bonuses. Wtf.

All it will so is worsen inflation.

I don’t really understand how Liz Truss can be advocating for trickle down economics with a straight face.

I get the free market ideology. But what we’ve seen since the 1980s is wage stagnation for low & middle earners and huge increases in wealth for asset owners/people who were already well off. Lots of poor quality zero hours jobs. I suppose if enough home owners feel well off then maybe it works.

But does anyone really believe making rich people richer trickles down anywhere, or confers any wider benefit to society?

does anyone know if its a permanent cut or a temporary cut?

No, we had a referendum, and the screw the UK as long as it makes me rich side won, so that is that, and it should not be discussed again.

Yes, but that's the Unions fault, and but Jeremy Corbyn.

Not sure that analysis explains the Red Wall “yes” vote which was super influential

The kind of people who will benefit from these policies aren't the kind who reinvest in their local economies.

Give poor people money, they spend it in local shops, on alcohol, lottery tickets, cigarettes- things which bring in a lot of extra VAT/tax.

Give wealthy people money they go on holiday abroad, buy a house abroad or second home in the uk (pushing out FTBs), invest in foreign shares etc. the money doesn't benefit communities. If they have a lot of money they can afford an accountant who can make sure they avoid as much tax as possible.

That's why there's not 'trickle down'.

Most families in poverty now work. They are poor because of high private rents and being underemployed due to the lack of full time work in low paid sectors eg retail, hospitality, care.

Of the poor who are out of work it is almost always due to caring responsibilities or their own ill health/ disability.

The government could help these issues by having low cost full time childcare for all and better care provision for disabled/ elderly people. They could also change the way carer's allowance works to allow carers to combine work and care (currently a cap of c £120 per earnings).

The government could also push more for employers to employ disabled people and be more punitive towards disability discrimination in the workplace.

If they really wanted to help the economy they would take these measures.

But they don't. They want backhanders to their mates.

It's a corrupt government and has been for years.

This is the real problem.

we will benefit from tax cuts. The money will go into Pensions or investments so won’t trickle down
Its a stupid idea

Carol "They could also change the way carer's allowance works to allow carers to combine work and care (currently a cap of c £120 per earnings)."

yes. This cap is utterly mad. It must cost the state far more to provide care rather than strike out family carers because of this!

Strangely enough those leading the Leave campaign managed to hide their motivations for wanting to leave the EU and very successfully made it seem as though the EU and foreigners generally were a problem for the ignored in the UK, when in fact it was the likes of the Leave campaign who consistently ignore the needs of people in the UK except the richest.

I was wondering if it would be legit to say that Truss is borrowing from public sector workers to fund tax cuts. And borrowing from future generations. That's part of what is happening, in effect, isn't it?

Refuse to fund pay rises (in line with inflation) for public sector workers.
Borrow large amounts.
Future generations will pay back on all that borrowing.
Use cost savings from low pay rises + use income in future to fund tax cuts.

Tell me that I'm wrong?

Yep. In tax havens!

It’s like throwing petrol on a fire. Lunacy of the first order. She won’t be happy until she’s completely destroyed the economy.

Please do not believe the "trickle down" message. Even if by some miracle this were to start, it would not make it in time or in sufficient quantity for all the people who will have starved/ died through lack of medical or social care in the meantime.

Our government is a disgrace.

It won't help first time buyers who don't pay stamp duty anyway. And there will be more competition from other house hunters so that drives up house prices even more. We were hoping for the market to cool or even a slight drop so we at least have a chance of buying somewhere, we don't even mind paying a few thousand in stamp duty. But last year we lost out on about 20 houses because they were going for 50k over asking. If that happens again we've got no chance in the next few years.

I was dismayed to hear this announced under the cover of the funeral as well
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/18/kwasi-kwarteng-to-announce-network-of-low-tax-investment-zones

Maybe I'm overly cynical but "a network of low-tax, low-regulation investment zones" sounds to me like creating areas where the rich can set up sweatshop ghettos.
Regulations aren't there to be inconvenient, they're there to try and protect places and people from things that shouldn't be ok, and there's no clear view on exactly which regulations they are looking at reducing. Maximum hours in a work week? Holiday allowances? Sick pay? Minimum wage? Minimum housing standards for rented housing?

I am struggling with this one - she is now saying that the criticism of financing increased Government spending or cutting taxes through increased Government debt is an argument of the "left".

It was the Conservatives under Cameron who criticised Labour under Blair and Brown for increasing Government debt to finance their spending . And the Conservative Chancellor Osborne who argued for and advocated a balanced budget approach to not just st stop Govdebt increasing but to actually reduce it ( the austerity measures).

news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-is-prepared-to-go-against-voters-views-on-taxation-but-her-plans-carry-huge-economic-and-political-risk-12702240 Liz Truss is prepared to go against voters' views on tax - but her plans carry huge economic and political risk | Beth Rigby

It’s not just you who’s struggling @1dayatatime. It’s like Alice Through the Looking Glass.

Noon tomorrow (22nd) normally covered live on Sky News.

@1dayatatime The new way of answering questions by accusing the questioner of bias instead of attempting to describing and explain the government position is so infuriating. What a cheap trick it is. Straight out of the Donald Trump handbook.

I will be honest and admit that even after increase in NI we are ok. We would love to move on and buy a bigger house but can afford stamp duty. I hope she realises and rectifies her mistake sooner. It’s an unnecessary burden on poor and party pleasing gimmick to gain votes.