Paying for school trips

[Workinghardeveryday]

I was under the impression that no child could be excluded from a school trip even if it wasn’t paid for?

We got a letter on their first day of high school advising there is a school trip for RE in less than two weeks time.

I rang to give consent, to be told I had to log onto Parent Pay, make my payment of £30 each child and give my consent there.

I explained I don’t use Parent Pay and would give my consent over the phone or via email.

I was advised this is not possible the deputy head rang me, she advised she wouldn’t want my children to be excluded from the trip (twins so £60!!) unless I pay.

You seriously believe that supervising staff should pay to go on a school visit which is part of their job?

If I had to lay to go on a school visit as a member of staff I'd simply not go, as would most teaching staff I suspect. Which then means trips can't take place at all. Maybe that suits some families, but not the majority in my experience.

Do you expect other employees to pay to attend a compulsory part of their work commitments?

Yep. My mum couldn't afford to pay for school trips so I just didn't go on them. Local ones were usually free and I did attend them.

Teaching staff also don't get paid for the extra hours they spend preparing for, organising and during school visits, including overnight residential when they have to be 'on call' for 24 hours a day potentially, often giving up their evenings, weekends or holiday time. All done for free.

No I expect the school to pay obviously.

But with what money?
Have you seen how stretched school budgets are?
Schools simply can't afford to pay for every pupil to go on a school visit. They can't ask other parents to cover the cost of those who's parents can't or won't pay. They can sometimes use Pupil Premium money to help towards finding a place for a child who is eligible for PP funding.

That small amount of £1.50 would buy bread so my kids could have toast for breakfast and a sandwich for lunch for days actually.

Their costs added to kids fee confirmed by teacher attending.

As for a complete break down of costs and charges. Schools have to provide them if requested, and they cannot charge you for teacher/volunteer costs not can they make a profit.

Most school trip accommodation includes 'free' places for staff for x number of pupils, same as when you book school visit activities and entry fees.

I'm not convinced the teacher was telling you the truth tbh as that's not how it's allowed to work in state schools. They don't sound very knowledgable about how school trip charging is worked out.

Maybe I'm not being particularly reasonable. However, there are free bus passes (in Scotland anyway), so why are trips taking place when the schools can't even afford them? Does that not resonate with anyone? If they can't afford it, neither can children.

STOP making excuses for the state of government funding. All inclusive or nothing at all. Stop punishing children from 'poor' families.

But that is the case in many professions is it not?

it is in mine.

I don’t get expenses for a lot of things.

no one is saying they shouldn’t, just parents shouldn’t be covering the cost for them. School or education board should be.

it’s like me ringing a client and saying, yes I will come and see you, it will cost you xyz for my fuel costs

Yes, it would, if you looked at it in isolation as the only cost. However, we aren't so you're being disingenuous in order to make a false "red herring" point. Whether that trip is £28.50 or £30 is not what will make the fundamental difference as to whether the parent can or cannot pay.

it’s like me ringing a client and saying, yes I will come and see you, it will cost you xyz for my fuel costs

This is built into the fee many professionals charge for home visits to clients.

Dh is a solicitor and he very much charges for travelling time, as well as appointment time. It is dearer for the client to be seen at home than at his office as a result. He also claims fuel money from the business. This ultimately comes from clients, as the overall fee covers all costs involved including staffing needs. This is the same for almost all of my friends with professional type jobs in private businesses.

Since we're not in Scotland, your free bus passes are not much use to me. Even if we had them, my school is very poorly served by public transport. We couldn't get to any theatre that way, for example.
Again, you're making out that I'm punishing children. You're talking nonsense.
My school will only be running trips this year that are essential for fieldwork. We know we'll get backlash for that just as much as if we run trips that people can't afford. People love to blame schools for stuff. It's the nature of what we do.

The cost for your fuel expenses, paid back to you by the employer, is built in to what a client is charged as part of their contract. So, actually, in your example, the client is paying for you to come to them. If the company you work for doesn't pay travel expenses yet would expect you to travel out to clients with no choice in the matter than it's shit that you work for such a stingy company.

Also when dh, and/or our other friends with HBIS that require them, does a business overnight trips they are not on duty 24/7. Once the meetings/activities are over they get to socialise, have a drink and a meal, and get a good night's sleep. They aren't waiting up for a bunch of kids to go to sleep and stopping them leaving their rooms and trying to visit other pupil's rooms, comforting homesick young teens/preteens, looking after sick children, etc.

It's not your fault the school has no funds, obviously. But you must know children from low income families are missing out? You may not be able to do anything about it, but that is fact.

I work in financial services. We visit clients at no cost to them whatsoever, it’s a service if needed.

Any costs are paid for by the company, including fuel costs - hence my point of asking clients to pay for mine etc

Sorry, that was to @MrsHamlet

Who's making excuses for the state of government funding? No one is. The government is responsible for the fact that schools can't just dip into funds to help children go on trips.

Is it? Do you have some actual data or research to support that claim?

If we are just pulling from our own anecdotes rather than anything concrete then I have to say when I worked in a school in one of the most deprived areas of the country, every single family paid the costs for trips, even though it was listed as a voluntary contribution. The only time I've ever had parents not pay (and actually encourage others not to pay too) is when working in a leafy lane school in a wealthy area.

I worry that one of the twins in particular would spend it on crap in the canteen! Could they do that?

This can't happen as you click on a button to pay for an item. So the lunch top up is separate from a trip payment.

I think you pretty much need ParentPay for secondary school.

I don't think I would want to spend £60 tbh. However costs have gone up loads recently for coaches.

Which bit of "we're only doing essential trips" or "I costed a trip and didn't go ahead" or "the last trip I organised had a fully funded place for a student in need" are you making into me making children from low income families miss out?

Yes it's a fact that some students miss out on all kinds of things. It's shit. I have never said otherwise.

And the company gets its money from its clients therefore, whether it's spelt out to them or not, they are paying your fuel costs.

And neither can the children who are the only people I care about. It's all this 'oh I'm a teacher and my life is difficult because I can't leave at 3pm'. You had the choice to be part of that profession. The children and parents were very silly thinking they would have empathetic and decent teachers without that choice.

Don't do it then. It's that simple.

It's all this 'oh I'm a teacher and my life is difficult because I can't leave at 3pm'. You had the choice to be part of that profession. The children and parents were very silly thinking they would have empathetic and decent teachers without that choice.

You need not have bothered with all your posts - you could've just gone in with the teacher bashing. We all knew it was coming.

What an utterly ridiculous statement!

I'm amazed anyone would think staff should have to pay transport or ticket costs to lead a trip where they've risk assessed it, booked it, completed a pre-visit in their own time-a day where they constantly count children, ensure all however many of them behave, are safe, are learning whatever they took them to learn. Most parents struggle to control one or two children in a day out but teachers sort out huge groups of them usually with a staffing ratio of 1:8 or 1:10.

Venues usually provide free staff tickets so the cost isn't being put onto the parents at all.

When they go on residential trips they are on 24 hour duty. They don't sleep properly. The days of staff nipping out to the pub or sitting drinking in the staffroom are long gone-and if they're not then those staff need to rethink what they're doing!

Your comment is just overly entitled bollocks "why don't the teachers pay" comments are usually make by the benefits parents who expect everything and want to contribute nothing.

Don't do it then. It's that simple.

Have you not noticed that lots of teachers are making that decision these days? There is a huge teacher retention crisis in this country. Scarily so in some areas and in some subjects.

I love my job and I know how much the children get from learning outside of school in visits. I put my heart and soul, and masses of my unpaid time and a fair bit of my own money, into my classes and pupils, spanning more than 25 years,

But it's ultimately my job. I can't just do it all for free. So yes, I don't expect to have to pay to supervise children on a school visit whilst also gonging up my own unpaid time at no extra cost.

And I've seen the school budgets enough to know that the schools simply cannot fund anything extra, regardless of how much they'd love to in an ideal world.

The time is coming where things like schools trips will simply stop.