To wear a fur coat in this day and age?

[Relevanceiskey]

Having a debate with a friend so thought I would hear other people's opinions! It was triggered by a fur coat we saw for sale in a vintage shop in Canterbury. Neither of us have a particular side of the debate, we have just been discussing for and against together. The two arguments are:

Against: The killing of animals for cosmetic reasons is disgusting. Even using animals skins for cosmetic reasons is selfish and parading them round is barbaric. Even faux fur coats endorse the "look" of wearing dead animals to look good (not to mention the faux fur strands are awful for the environment and are similar to glitter or microbeads in cosmetic products).

For: Although it was agreed buying a new fur coat is feeding into a cruel and inhumane trade, buying a vintage coat from a secondhand shop is ok as you aren't funding the trade, the coat will be juggled between owners until it is unwearable with no more animals dying in the process. Also it takes away from buying an artificially made, plastic coat which are unsustainable and terrible for the environment.

We also discussed something I saw a while ago, where a woman was heckled in London for wearing a fur coat, being called a "fur hag" over and over despite actually having inherited the coats. What are your thoughts on this too? Is even wearing fur that wasn't bought by you or bought by anyone any time recently awful?

I’ve a friend, she’s vegan (stop grasping your pearls in horror, fear not she doesn’t do it for the love of animals, she just doesn’t enjoy eating dead things). She will happily wear fur. Vintage or otherwise.

I hate fur personally. Whether it’s faux or not. All I think of is Joan Collins, Dynasty and prostitutes. It’s so dated and cheap looking. Nasty stuff.

This is actually a really interesting point because I would wear a vintage fur coat - the reasoning being that the damage is already done. However, the idea of ivory really disgusts me. I've no idea why I feel this way, because they're both as bad as each other. I'm more of a hypocrite than I thought...

She's not a vegan if she wears fur. Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of all animal products. She just doesn't eat meat.

So hypothetical (and unlikely) sanario, if someone lived in the countryside, regulaly ate rabbit pie, and kept the skins to make a coat, would that be ethicaly OK, or at least no worse then leather?

If yes, "it's OK if it's killed for other reasons" isn't much of a jump from "it's OK if it's already dead", so why would vintage fur be an issue?

And if you'd consider the rabbit coat not OK, on what grounds is the skin of dead rabbit different then skin of dead cow?

@pannikin ok- she says she’s vegan. She doesn’t eat dead things or consume anything from an animal- milk etc. She considers herself a fashionista and is insistent you’ll never see a fat vegan. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Are they equally bad would you think though? One is taking a large part of an animal for warmth, and another is killing a tiny part of an animal for your jewellery box or mantle. I don't think your thought process is wrong, there is definitely something less brutal about a quick death (which is what i imagine when i think of a rabbit fur coat for example, although i know fur farms are usually brutal) than a slow and painfil death by hacking off an elephants tusks

People who are vegan can be overweight, that is stupid.

I'd be inclined to agree, it wouldn't be half as bad. But a PP made a good point that parading it is giving off the impression fur is ok, and given the abhorrent nature of the trade (both past and present) are you endorsing this?

@carefullycourageous 🤷🏼‍♀️Erm ok - she isn’t overweight though, far from it in fact. To be fair, I’ve lost a ton of weight since going vegan. I’m not a fan of cake though.

@Relevanceiskey. It's a difficult one, because we don't have to use fur to keep warm. Perhaps it's the size of the animal that makes me feel uncomfortable, despite a rabbit skin coat causing many more deaths, I must subconsciously value the life of the elephant more. It's the first time I've really thought about it to be honest.

Agreed.

You are right there are many alternatives. I guess the same could be said for vegetarianism (or veganism)

I don't wear leather or down/feather .

I'm not a fan of fur even synthetic and if I buy something with faux fur then I remove it .

But those animals , as many as 60 mink for a full length, have already been kept in a cage that maims their paws , gassed or electrocuted , some bigger fur bearers have a red hot poker up their bum to kill them without damaging the pelt .
But they're dead aren't they , long dead . So crack on and try not to think about it . The suffering and bloodshed .

I would wear brand new, vintage, or any other legal fur

But then I'm pro fox hunting so cobalt would most like a stole.

No, but some vegans are overweight, is what I meant - it is stupid to say no vegans are.

Sigh - ok @carefullycourageous

I am an enthusiastic omnivore, I wear leather shoes and I am not a hypocrite so in theory I wouldn’t have a problem wearing the fur of any non-endangered species. In practice, I would probably be horribly allergic to the fur because I’m allergic to all manner of animals so I wouldn’t wear fur.

How would you feel about buying a human skin lampshade?

www.npr.org/2010/12/28/132416206/New-Book-Tells-Story-Of-The-Lampshade

You aren’t directly contributing to any deaths, and the person the skin was removed from died in the 1940s, so would have been dead by now anyway. But most people would still find that absolutely revolting.

Given the way fur farms kill animals, many people would feel the same way about a mink coat - that it is disgusting to have one at all, regardless of provenance.

I think we don’t need to wear fur tbh. For what? For warmth - there are lots of other alternatives. For look - it sends really awful message. However I don’t like the thought that some people might be scared to wear fur which they already have.

Why are you pro fox hunting? Genuinely curious.

Nothing wrong with it. It's not going to come back to life.

I find the comparison to using human skin utterly abhorrent.

Where in Canterbury was it?

Got some vintage furs Mink white and brown. The white is a cape. Beaver lamb. Musquash, rabbit trimmed black velvet cape. All vintage. Haven't worn them for years with our mild winters these days. They keep the wind and cold out. But strangely so does faux fur and it weighs a lot less and you can stick these in the washing machine.

I eat meat OH shoots in the winter and fishes in the summer. But we used to breed geese, ducks, hens, and guinea fowl. I could never eat them and we buried them when they died. 🙈

Love a fur. Won't buy new though. Always vintage or a hand me down from long gone relatives/family friends. I eat meat so I can't really judge.

maybe in temperate climates where alternatives are perfectly fine it's okay to hold this stance.
in other more northern zones fur is suitable and vintage (if in good shape) can be reworked.
doubt anyone who knows my fur (inside next to my skin/gortex exterior) made from muskrat would be bothered.

i have a vintage mink. i plan on wearing it and passing it down if someone lives in a suitable area.
when the muskrat begins to fall apart there will be no reclaiming such poor quality fur.

I have been challenged a couple of times as in is that real!! Always say nope it's a good copy though. Most folks don't know the difference.