What happens if a mainstream school can't meet their needs??

[User47484739478474]

When it's not just as simple as moving to a sen school?!

DS nearly 12, is diagnosed with autism, likely has adhd, has severe anxiety, showing traits of ocd and learning disabilities. I always knew he was behind at school but was not told how far behind until a few weeks before the end of year 6 - he is 4 years behind to be precise. He needs a lot of guidance and emotional support too.

despite this, he generally enjoys going yo school, he likes to make friends, tries his best and he is not disruptive in lessons at all - he holds it all in and let's loose when he gets home which is not ideal. He works so hard ti be 'good' (in his words) at school that he is a nightmare after school.

He has an EHCP. I was told he would not neccesarily meet the criteria for a sen schooo but needs a high level of support at mainstream which he always got at primary, but proving more difficult at secondary.

he started mainstream secondary last week, we had visited the school quite a few times, spoke to the senco, meetings, he did extra visits, transition days so he was fully prepared and the school seemed confident they could his meet needs but they haven't been so good in practise. They had a change in senco and seems to be a mismatch of communication somewhere.

anyway, new senco has emailed me saying we need a meeting about his academic analogies and support in lessons? What does that mean?

he had 1:1 at primary, I always knew this would change slightly at secondary, I was told he'd have support but it wouldn't be the same Ta all day which I was happy with as I didn't want him to become too reliant on one individual.

in my eyes, he's adapted really well. I was really worried about him finding himself around the school but he's pretty much memorised his timetable and has had no struggles knowing where he should be, he has managed lunch times on his own without adult support. I think he's enjoying the new sense of independence.

Despite struggling academically he isn't stupid (not sure if that's the right thing to say). He is intelligent in other ways and has good understanding of things. There are some things he excels at - computers and also map reading and knowing where places are in the world without having to think about.

im worried sick what they are going to say about him struggling in lessons.

sen school is an option but places are few where I live and it seems a fight to get your child in. I know a child in a far worse situation at school than DS and cannot get a place despite having an EHCP.

Any advice? Parents of sen children that are in that awkward middle of not automatically meeting the criteria for a sen school but struggling in mainstream too.

Tia

Hi OP I don't know the answer except to say a special school or any school have to give reasons (and solid reasons) why they can't take a child if they have an EHCP. My dd has one but has just started mainstream primary school. I always wonder what's going to happen when she reaches your ds's age as well.

Can I suggest reposting this in the special needs boards? There is loads of brilliant knowledge and advice there from others who have been there and know their stuff.

Hi Op there are different types of special schools ,in my area we have two lea special high schools one for children with moderate to severe learning disabilities, and the second for children with severe to profound learning disabilities, we also have a couple of high school, s with Asd hubs its worth looking around and getting a feel for places .

I’d make a parental request for an EHCP.

Also there are private specialist schools, but these tend to cost ££££,s and ime ,it would be a fight to get the LEA to fund .

Join the Facebook group not fine in school - they have loads of advice

I think you need to think long term and consider how it will impact on his self esteem to be so far behind his peers. Being four years behind is a lot. I have been through similar although my dd got further behind earlier. She is much happier in a specialist school. I would go and really listen to what they say. I would ask straight questions like 'How many other students are working at the same academic level?' 'Will he be able to access any of the GCSE qualifications in Y10? Are there any alternatives he could access?
If the answers suggest not, start looking at all the provision that might work within an hour of your house, include independent provision and start doing your research. Good luck.

On our case (DD Y11 and just diagnosed with ASD and ADHD, plus OCD previously) we're pulling her out to an online school and repeating Y10. There's no time for an EHCP and change to a specialist face to face before GCSE's, especially given they still haven't even referred her to the Ed Psych despite saying they would in June), she's not attending much anyway, and this seems like the best solution for her.

As he is already in this school (which means they agreed to being named on his ehcp) they can't just shunt him off to Sen school it would be a process (a long process probably) that you would be fully involved in so try not to worry about that for now - I realise that's easier said than done.

Try to go into this meeting with an open mind but have a few phrases ready. Like if they say he is struggling with x ask what support they are offering for x and what support they propose introducing given that isn't working. Go in with the attitude of 'we are here to discuss what is and isn't working and what's next in terms of extra support in this school not in terms of moving schools'

I think you are meeting trouble half way.

Just because they want to meet with you doesn't mean they are going to say they can't meet his needs. They might be discussing what more/different support they should be providing based on experiences so far.

However if he really is 4 years behind (by what definition?) then mainstream may well not be the best place for him. If school supports you then you would be more likely to find him accepted into a SEN school.

On what basis was it decided that he was four years behind? I think he’s done very well, memorising his timetable, finding his way around the school and managing lunchtime, all of which can be tricky for people with his difficulties.

I would ask where the school sees particular deficits in his learning and what support is in place in the classroom to help him access the curriculum. It might be worth finding out whether the school has alternative courses for young people who might find GCSE too hard.

The important thing though, is to find out whether the school is covering what is detailed in his EHCP. If they say they can’t, because of staffing issues, then you might need to request an emergency review at which a decision could be made as to whether that school can meet his needs.

As has been said though, I wouldn’t assume they’re saying they can’t meet his needs. It might be a discussion to find the best way forward to support him in the areas he most needs. I think he’s to be congratulated on his achievements so far, which may not be academic, but show developing independence.

I’ve been forced to home ed because of this

Thank you everyone

he is 4 years behind at school with basic academic things like English, maths etc. saying that reading is a stronger point of his, not on par with his peers but he can read to s good level. Writing is a massive struggle, he hates writing too.

I was told 4 years behind by the primary schools senco. He did not do his sta shorn because he wasn't at expected level to begin with but also because he couldn't meet the demands of a test without support.

it is really such a mess. He coped well in mainstream primary with extensive support. He was always fully involved in lessons but did work at a simpler level and work that was more suited to him.

a sen unit within a mainstream school was suggested at one point but there's not on for miles here 😭

New school senco said we'll have the meeting in a few weeks, he only started middle of last week so I can only assume they want to do observe a little longer before meeting with me! I'm gonna be so anxious between now and then.

I have no issue with the idea of him going to a sen school, in fact I'll be all for it! It's just the unknown and not having an idea if he'll get a space or how long it could take. I have a friend who's child is in a far worse place than DS, he also has an EHCP and only in school
part time and the council will still not put him into a specialist school. I'm in Cornwall and there is general lack of services here!

they are put in lessons with children of the same academic level straight away at his school (based on primary school & sats I assume). But it seems still below the bottom sets 😩

Your primary school really screwed up not making sure you were aware of how far behind he is and not being clear that mainstream secondary would/might be too much.

My DS (year 10) can’t cope in mainstream but doesn’t fit the criteria for our LA special schools as he’s capable of sitting his GCSES. He started really well at secondary (even though he wasn’t getting the support he needed), then things started slipping but covid hit so he had time to recover before year 8 started. This time things started breaking down sooner but again there was some recovery time with another lockdown. He didn’t settle back in after the second lockdown. We had used the time to find DS a more suitable school, he started at an independent specialist school 40 miles away in the next LA. It’s a long journey everyday but most certainly worth it. There may be schools suitable for your DS if he’s able to travel and you can convince the LA to pay the fees for an independent school.

I'm not an expert but I do have a child in LEA special school and also now know lots of other families with children in special school, s I'm not sure he would fit the criteria for LEA special school ,he might not be behind enough ,there are other specialist schools bur ad I said they tend to be a fight to get a place as they cost ££££,s

100 %! The primary school had a change in senco not too long ago who was fab but by the time she came he was nearly finished, the previous one failed massively!

I had questioned mainstream/sen school before and shrugged off!

I retired a couple of years ago from a job as SENCO in a mainstream secondary school. I have a few suggestions for you to discuss with the school, obviously not knowing your child, they might not be totally appropriate.

Does your son have a Time Out Pass to access a Quiet Room or trusted member of staff if he becomes overwhelmed during a lesson or at break times?

Most schools have some kind of Accelerated Reading support to help children who are behind in reading, often spending 15 minutes a day working with a TA on specially prepared material.

A child who is good on a computer but with writing problems should be given a lap top or other writing device to use in a lesson. Then they should offer the support to get the completed work printed off or sent to the teacher.

Ask what advice has been given to teachers as part of his IEP to help support him with writing, there are lots of ways to reduce the amount of writing in a lesson, such as multiple choice, filling in missing words, putting and pasting in correct order etc. Teachers should be planning these activities ahead of the lesson as part of providing differentiation.

I visited several SEN schools but most of them tended to support children with complex physical or behavioural needs combined with learning needs rather than those just with learning difficulties. From your description of your son, I think that his school could be making adequate provision for his needs and maybe a updated Ed Psych assessment would be helpful.

Hopefully the school are asking for a meeting to review his progress and discuss the level of support he is getting, I often met with parents of SEN children after a few weeks to hold an interim review, especially if the annual review was in the summer term.

I’m a former AH and SENCo too and I’m not sure your boy would fit special provision, since he seems to be coping with school in general, despite needing academic support. That’s why I asked the question about whether the school provides for qualifications other than GSCE, which he may not be able to access.

I think meeting in a few weeks will give you all time to see how he is coping, for them to target support and for you to check with them that he has the support named in his EHCP.

Who told you DS wouldn’t meet the criteria for a SS? Have you looked at the SS or ARPs within travelling distance - usually consider up to 1hr15 for secondary although many travel further? You may have to appeal but if you think it’s needed do pursue it.

Unless the school you want is wholly independent the LA can only refuse to name your preference if they can prove:

• The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

Being full is not defined in law, and on its own being ‘full’ is not enough of a reason to refuse to name your preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DS is incompatible. The bar to prove this is much higher than many realise, higher than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. Unless the school is wholly independent the LA can, and must, name the school regardless of the school’s objections unless the LA can prove one of the reasons above. Although it doesn’t stop them forcing parents to appeal.

If you think the current school can meet DS’s but he needs further support to cope you can ask for an early review of the EHCP. If a consistent 1:1 is specified in the EHCP it must be provided, regardless of what is normally provided.

Your friend should appeal for a SS if they haven’t already, and threaten JR for alternative provision in the meantime.

@Ilovetocrochet excellent thank you. He was getting learning breaks at primary but at new school he has been told to go to the support staff if he has an issue and has done a few times during lessons and he's missed those lessons but they seem fine about this. I'm not sure if this is formally in place or not but he seems to know where to go if there's an issue.

it is a difficult one! He tends to hold it in all day and the challenging behaviour comes at home.

he also had significant sensory processing difficulties but he seems to have coped okay so far. He was excused from a food lesson as he was struggling with the smell of what they were making. Smells are a massive problem for him!

the writing is a massive issue. He struggles with writing, he struggles majorly with cursive, he has hypermobility in his fingers too. He wants his writing to be perfect and has meltdowns if he makes mistakes therefore tries to avoid it totally. The school is very aware of this as it was one of the main pointers discussed between primary senco and secondary senco at a meeting.

I don't think he will able to sit his GCSEs. Firstly because of his academic ability and also because of the expectation of formal examinations - having to sit for that long etc.

Thank you everyone, don't have time to reply to all individually but all very helpful.

Thank you. He coped well within mainstream primary with support but during year 6 it went down hill, we dealt with school
refusal etc, year 6 was awful, it escalated so quickly. We are only one week into secondary so still early days but I hope it continues to go well. The worst part is he's starting to notice he isn't on par with his peers, when he was younger he really didn't take much notice it didn't give a s**t but now he's older it upsets him that he cannot do the work other children are doing.

as it stands right now I don't think GCSEs will be achievable. Firstly his academic ability, secondly the expectations of a test might be too much having to sit for that length of time or risking being a distraction to other children. He generally needs constant guidance and support from an adult in lessons.

the school are said to be excellent for children with sen, from the view point of other parents and their ofsted which is the reason I chose it but I'm still worried sick!

Masking all day and exploding at home is quite common. It is known as the coke bottle effect and signifies there are unmet needs at school.

Has DS had a sensory OT assessment and is there any ongoing sensory OT therapy in the EHCP?

I know you said you don’t think DS will be able to sit GCSEs anyway, but not being able to sit for so long doesn’t necessarily need to be a barrier. Along with other access arrangements, DS can have rest breaks, a prompter and be in a separate room if necessary.

Your son sounds like he could get on really well and be happy in the right mainstream school, but make little progress in the wrong one. I wouldn't rule out a different mainstream if this one doesn't work out.

To answer your original question, my child who "fell down the gap" now has a place in a specialist unit within a mainstream school. Lots of people told me it couldn't be done, but it could, and in Y7 you do have the time for the fight. However we also know DC with much more obvious learning needs, who are very happy in mainstream.

Thanks all. He had Ot assessments when he was younger but it came to an end. He could do with going back to them to be honest.

the services here are so poor, waiting lists are so huge and they tend to sign children off after a diagnosis! He was signed off most things after asd diagnosis age 4 when it was still the early years team, he carried on with speech & language until he was 9 or so, then signed off and left to 'natural progression' but his speech is still young for his age, he didn't talk at all until 5!