DD never worn full uniform school worried

[SchoolUniformHater]

DD is 8, Year 4.

For years 3 and above school expect a full shirt and ties. Years 5 and 6 also wear blazers. This is the same at all of the schools within a 3-mile circle of my house. It’s a practice for high school and while Year 5 can take theirs off whenever they want to, Year 6 have to ask and blazers with the logo must be worn on school trips. In younger years they have to have a jumper or cardigan with the logo on for school trips - day to day they can wear any navy or grey jumper or cardigan or blazer.

DD currently refuses to wear the jumper or cardigan and the tie. Flat out refuses. It’s got to the point where she’ll sit in class freezing cold and still insist she’s fine and won’t wear it.

School are starting to get worried about her in Years 5 and 6 where the uniform requirements are stricter and much more enforced. As am I.

She’s behaved at school, she’s just stubborn but I do get the feeling she doesn’t particularly enjoy school – this is her 2nd primary school as I moved her due to her not settling in Year 1 but she likes this one only slightly more than the last, she loves the holidays and always sighs when she learns it’s back to school/Sunday night. She’s always hated having clothing options enforced on her, since she could choose her own she has. She hates trousers, always wants skirts which is another big concern for school as the two nearest high schools are trousers only.

She’s the same with the tie. Refuses to wear it. Until Easter of Year 3 she wore a polo shirt as she flat out refused a button-down shirt.

I’ve tried everything, bribery, consequences from me and school, getting her cousin whose in the other Year 4 class to show her how to do the tie etc. but she just shrugs and says she doesn’t want to wear them and doesn’t care if she’s kept in at playtime or stopped from going on trips.

I am terrified she’ll be a nightmare at high school because of it and I want to nip it in the bud but have no idea how!

She’s much better if it’s her idea but trying to make her think it’s her idea is hard. If I say “You can wear this until half term then we need to try this” she’ll argue with me until half term that she didn’t agree to this and she’s not doing it.

I have in the past pinned her down and forced her to wear it only for her to pull off her jumper/cardigan and tie as soon as she’s out of sight – Year 4s and above go into school by themselves we don’t go onto school grounds. She's also getting too big, I'm on my own so not like I can pin her down and put her jumper/cardigan and tie on at the same time.

I’ve also bigged it up, told her she’s a big girl now and how smart she looks. I think a school uniform looks adorable as well as smart on small DC so I absolutely love them so no hint from me.

On trips she wears a hivis vest if she goes which she finds hilarious, and if she's told she can't go she just shrugs and doesn't care about being put in a younger or older year.

So ideas? School will try anything. I am of course going to speak to potential high schools and prewarn them, and I’m also desperately hoping I come into some money so she can go to the local private school which doesn’t have blazers until Year 9 which would give us some leeway.

Does she display any other behaviours that seem different to other children? Can you speak to the SENCo person at school and see what they suggest? And I would contact your GP and see if you can start the ball rolling with getting her assessed.

If she won’t conform and it’s not bad behaviour, then you need to know what’s going on. If it is something like ASD or sensory issues, as she gets older, there may be other things that become more noticeable too. I don’t like to jump in with, ‘oh it must autism’ or something but there could be something more going on than just not liking it, rightly or wrongly most kids do just conform with uniform even though they don’t like it so it’s unusual that she doesn’t. If there is something more going on, she may need some adjustments going forward.

It could just be that she just doesn’t like it and she knows the school don’t really push it at the moment. Sometimes it’s as simple as, ‘I don’t really have to so I won’t.’ I think you’re right to be thinking ahead though. Good luck.

Don't meet trouble half way.
Tell the school she has the uniform, just won't wear it. Let them apply the consequences.
At High School there will be bigger consequences, its her choice. If she wants to be a rebel without a cause let her.
My middle DD was like this in Senior school. I told them she had the uniform, I couldn't physically make her wear it. Their move.

Another one who thinks you need to investigate sensory issues and think about autism, possibly PDA. These issues can take years to unpick and can escalate into school refusal very quickly (a flash point can be the transfer into secondary), at which point it can be very hard to get them back into education. Girls can present very differently to boys and 'masking' can begin to fail as they get older.

You need to inform the school that you suspect this and ask for their support. They then have a duty to make adjustments while investigations are ongoing which could include flexibility with uniform etc. Please don't hold down, threaten etc. as this could exacerbate things (and your daughter needs to know you are on her side).

I'd suspect sensory issues. DS has always hated over the head jumpers but will wear jackets. We've been lucky that zip up jackets were an option at primary and blazers at secondary. I bought a jumper in year 7 that was never worn. If there was no blazer he would have froze.

Does she wear no warm tops at all? Does she run hot?

I think you should have her assessed for some sort of sensory processing disorder.

My ds is autistic and struggles with sensory stuff, but you can find ways around it by moving buttons, buying bigger shirts, getting the tie stitched into a clip on tie, buying trousers in a soft fabric, etc. Clothes can be altered if there are parts that upset her. If she feels constricted in a jumper, perhaps a couple of sizes up would help, for example.

Otherwise, if you are confident that she has no special needs of any sort, then you will need to put a stop to her thinking that she can make her own rules and doesn't have to abide by the rules of the institution she is enrolled in. I don't agree at all with the posters who think that this is the school's responsibility. Ultimately if you put all the responsibility onto the school, her actual education will just get shitter.

Can I just add that depsite the fact that I think everyone should back off about uniform and not try and solve high school issues in year 4, I do also think that you need ot get a sensory assessment and do it now instead of waiting until later.

My dd is 14, I had concersn all through primary, but never enough to do something, it went pear shaped with secondary and covid, and she is now gettign an autism assessment. I really wish I had pushed in year 4. School would not have been keen because she was very academic anc clever, just socially hopeless.

Honestly rules like this make me see red. How dare schools dictate to children that they cannot even decide to control their own body temperature by taking off their blazer?

All this in the context of growing childhood obesity and declining physical activity and yet we insist on dressing children in uniforms and shoes that a completely unsuited to free movement. What would be so wrong with matching colour polo shirts, jogging bottoms and plain trainers?

As someone with sensory issues, there's no amount of "consequences" or whatever that will work. Wearing the hated item literally feels like torture and being bullied into it only makes that worse.

Imagine it (wearing the hated item) like having a toothache. It's always there, and you know if you do anything to relieve it then you're going to get into trouble. You might be able to ignore it for so long it there's enough other stimulus but it's always there. Sometimes you might get more toothache (other hated items, other "bad" stimulus) and it can lead to a meltdown because it all just gets overwhelming.

Not exactly conductive to learning, is it?

I also agree re assessment for sensory issues.

I also think enforcing blazers in y5 as 'practice' for secondary school is daft. Y5 are y5. They should be running around playing on equipment etc. They don't need blazers to carry phones, planners, pens, keys etc in.

I'd seriously look at travelling further for schools if possible.

I was going to ask this.
I honestly despaired of my DS's high school for this - meltingly hot summer & not allowed to remove blazers AT ALL.
On one day 6pupils were sent home after fainting.

I hate making young children wear such restrictive clothes. With such an issue around activity why on earth don't we have kids in joggers and trainers so they can run about in comfort?

Anyway - my DS started at a primary where they wore shirts and ties from age 4 (!) he hated it (and was later diagnosed ASD) but luckily we have moved to one where they just wear polo shirts and jumpers.

She clearly has issues with the uniform - I don't think it sounds like she's being 'naughty' no way would I make her wear it. What are they going to do really at primary? I'm a total conformist normally but school uniforms really rile me.

DS has sensory issues with his ASD. He flatly refused to wear trousers for years. He's also particular over other garments, but he does like his knees to be able to breathe.

Fortunately his primary school had a sensible, fairly generic uniform and he went up to and through y6 in t-shirt and shorts in every weather all year round. He's just gone to secondary (they all have different shades of the same uniform) and he is just about "coping" in the baggiest pair of trousers that won't fall off his butt.

I learned many years ago not to sweat the small stuff and he knows I'll only stand a point on clothing if there's a very good reason for it. This helps with things like knowing there are no choices about secondary uniform.

Tbh, this primary's uniform policy is ridiculous, uncomfortable and impractical, creating more issues than it solves. It's been easier to address a complete change of uniform as part of transition rather than continuously battle extraneous items that clearly can't have importance if they weren't on the uniform in lower years as DS would argue it. It's also helped having the fresh start and no one commenting on the change in attire.

I would not battle it, I would just send her with the appropriate garments. I would also be asking for reasonable sensory adjustments for her (e.g. substituting for logo hoodie). Fighting a school battle on home territory can be damaging if ASD is involved (as it often is with sensory issues).
It doesn't help that I fail to see the importance of dressing children like second hand car sales people in a world where workwear is becoming less and less formal, especially in many high-end jobs, and don't believe in the argument to convincingly enforce it. People learn best when they're comfortable.

Wearing blazers to Primary school to practice for secondary school is one of the most bonkers uniform justifications ever. DD started secondary last week. She practiced wearing her blazer by... putting it on on the first day.

If a child has sensory issues, they can't practice them away...