Not enough support in daughters class.

[User473847284737]

This has been going for a year or two.

shes in year 3. No formal diagnoses as such but she has an EHCP which she's had in place since pre school. She does not need 1:1 but needs some degree of extra support. Her issues include speech delay, her speech was quite far behind at the point of starting reception and unclear, she has made huge progress but still quite far behind for her age, she has motor skill delays, can't run or walk down steps very well, she struggles to get on & off the toilet, was told she has hypermobility and low muscle tone but it's believed she also has dyspraxia which could also be the reason she struggled with clarity of her speech.

she is really quite far behind at school, working at beginning of year 1 level. She can't really read much. Her speech therapist said it can be tied to how significant her speech delay is. She really wants to learn though.

also, we believe she's showing signs of asd. It's extremely likely as her older brother is on the spectrum (diagnosed aged 4). I'm also just about to contact the gp over an assessment for myself as it's been obvious for a long time I'm on the spectrum. I score 190 on raads r, over 65 suggests autism.

I believe Dd masks a lot and copied with her friends are doing.

Despite this she is quite social, has lots of friends (but I feel like the gap is widening between her and her peers as they get older though).

anyway, back to my op. She's in a class of what I believe is 25. There is at least 5 of them needing extra support. Dd is the only one with an EHCP as far as I know. the senco told me there is only 3 in the school with an EHCP, 2 are mine so only 1 other. There's lots of children needing them but aren't getting them. I've been quite lucky that my oldest has been supported, Dd is not. She's not making much progress at school. I can only do so much at home to help her academically, I'm no teacher.

I'm not saying for one minute she needs more support because of this, children should be supported EHCP or not. But my issue is with the school. There is often only one teacher and ta in the class which I don't believe is good enough for the amount of children needing support. some of the kids in the class are generally just disruptive too but don't have sen. It's a really challenging class from what I can gather. I can sympathise with the teacher

but is 1 ta enough. Surely there should be more?? I know it all comes down to money but it's not good.

Who ever told you that is wrong. The parent copy is the same as any other. God almighty.

There is your problem. You need to appeal the plan and get section F written properly with the appropriate support specified unquantified in terms of hours and delivery. Otherwise you will not be able to hold a local authority to account.

It isn’t about just hours and delivery
a 1to 1 adult who is unlikely to be trained and on minimum wage is no substitute for a detailed occupational therapy and speech therapy programme planned and delivered y trained staff. The OPs daughter seems to have holistic needs and not just a moderate learning difficulty

The hours and delivery are essential and NOT just about 1:1 support in the classroom. I have a plan on front of me that says “will receive 1 hour per week term time occupational therapy delivered by an occupational therapist with expertise in paediatric sensory processing disorder and dyspraxia.” Then there are additional hours put in for preparation and communication of this to other staff.

The delivery MUST specify who delivers it ie what their experience and qualifications are.

You misunderstand my point.

My point is that loads of kids need additional support at the moment. More than usual.

That is impacting on kids who do have formal medical issues. The kid who has just got funding for a TA isn't getting a 1 to 1 because of it.

Its not right. But it's also about as good as it's going to get under the circumstances. And the best option is to try and support other parents to get EHCPs because of the funding issue.

This isnt going to get better with the fuel price crisis. And whilst you can say 'no one should put up with it and just accept it' the reality is there isn't going to be a magic bullet of funding to plug the gap in support for all the children who need it for various different reasons. There is just too much going on and schools are stretched beyond what they should provide BEFORE this winter

I find the whole situation deeply concerning and effectively a perfect storm of shitness for kids born in 2014/2015.

Banding without specific hours is unlawful. See 9.4 of the sen code, to which the LA must have regard.

in practice this means that the LA can’t apply a band of funding because the plan is meant to be written for the provision needed, not what the band can purchase. And also there’s nothing to stop the LA changing the £ attached to each band.

Hi op unfortunately year's ago at primary level children didn't have the support they needed..

I would also persue the specialist pathway because your child needs 1:1 to level her up to her peers and help her access the curriculum.

Money/politics/ is not your business
I've known school with a far Left bent that don't even believe in dyslexia or giving any support.
I know a parent with a child like yours and the school block her at every turn.
It's actually an extremely wealthy school as well..

The law is the law and it states every child needs to be able to access the curriculum..
Start going down every avenue you can including councils to make sure hrrnehcp States support.

Fyi further down the line in fe support is everywhere and often it's an issue in primary because they don't understand the law.

@RedToothBrush if a child has an EHCP with 32 hours of 1-1 support written into section F but 5 other children without an EHCP in the class also need 1-1 or additional support the child with the EHCP must receive 32 hours of 1-1 support. The EHCP is a legally binding contract and the needs of others in the class is irrelevant.
Ky DS had an EHCP and funding for a 1-1 but the support wasn’t qualified in the EHCP so the support was being shared which was detrimental to DS. I got his EHCP to quantify the support so I could hold the LA accountable.

Exactly this. The EHCP isn’t for the greater good of the class…

Wow!!! You offensive and ignorant person! Just because a child needs support doesn’t mean they were disruptive without it! How dare you make such appalling assumptions about ANY child! The purpose of SEN legislation is to level the playing field and remove barriers to education but actually the real barriers are ablist arseholes like you.

Where the fuck do you imagine children with additional needs SHOULD be???? Locked away in an institution? At what point do YOU deem a child shouldn’t even be in mainstream?

Unluckily for people of your disgusting attitude, the child’s right to a MAINSTREAM education is enshrined in law. I’ve read some shit on here over the years but your casual ignorance has shocked me.

If my DS didn’t get support in class his education would suffer not that of his classmates. You have a very narrow minded view of what an SEN child looks like. My DS in year 10 and will be taking GCSES, he certainly has potential.

I’m a TA in a secondary school and most classes I go into have several vulnerable pupils in them. Not all will have an EHCP but in my school it’s common for lower/mixed set classes to have 2/3 pupils with a EHCP yet only one TA.

The TAs instinct will be to assist all the pupils that need help managing the lesson (even the ones without a plan can be vulnerable) but there’s not enough of us to go round. I think if your daughter is the only pupil with a plan and she has a TA in all her lessons predominantly focussed on her, that is a better situation than many students have. It’s not great as a parent that the class size is relatively large but that is the reality of underfunded schools.

@Twiglets1 when support is shared as you described, and is very common in secondarya, if the funded child leaves the others can really suffer. DS didn’t return to his school for year 9 last year, the child who was sharing his support didn’t have funding/an EHCP so there was no longer an TA in the class- the child left within half a term and is still out of school. The school/parents were reliant on DSs funding so didn’t apply for an EHCP with any urgency. It’s so important if a child needs support to have it specified and quantified in an EHCP.

I totally agree it can be hard on the other children in the class if the funded child leaves. Sometimes the funded child just moves into another class in the same school (maybe up or down a set for example) and I (as a TA) always feel bad for the pupils I am leaving behind.
There are definitely pupils who don't have an EHCP who really should have one based on their needs and would benefit from having the extra support. It's not even just TA support at secondary level but also things like extra time in exams for processing or practical support in helping them through the day.

As I advise almost everyone OP you will have to fight, and chase everyone, Senco, GP, Paed, support. Everyone. Take notes of who you spoke to on what date follow up with an email and you just have to chase and not let up. you should be speaking to school and Senco and putting things in an email so there's a paper trail and just attack it on all fronts.

@Twiglets1 i got a phone call one day asking if DS would like to move down a math set, the SENCO stated he may benefit from the slower pace. DS was doing really well in Maths and near the top of his class. By the end of the call I discovered the other child really didn’t like the teacher and it was exacerbating their anxiety - they wanted DS to move so they could both continue to get the support. I obviously refused!

Wow, I can't pretend to be that surprised as this sort of thing does go on in schools. I've even heard of teachers not moving a child with a plan to a different set purely because they like having a TA in their class. They know that if the child moves up or down a set so too does the TA!

You already know this but you did absolutely the right thing for your child. If they are coping with the work in a higher maths set then they should absolutely stay there. The lower the set the slower the work goes which your child might find boring. And also (I can say this because I'm anonymous on here) schools tend to put their better teachers with the higher sets.

I have only just come back on, thank you everyone. Fortunately I missed comment deleted by mumsnet!

at Present Dd is not getting any support apart from the ta watching over a few of them if they are struggling with their work. Often Dd cannot do the work set and is just left not being able to do it. Anything musical or art she excels in, but anything academic she struggles. Things are not coming naturally to her!

I am certain she is due a review soon anyway but will speak to the senco.

How did you get an echp without a formal diagnosis!! I’ve never heard of that
Schools simply don’t have the money. I hope you’ve never voted conservative!

I’ve seen loads. The assessment criteria is only that the child “has or may have a special educational need which may require provision in the form of an education health and care plan.” (36.8 of children and families act 2014)

From that, the assessments should show to what degree the child’s needs and barriers to education would place them outside of that which the school could normally supply, and there’s the EHCP. The reason why is not relevant.

You need to generate an appeal right either from a review or by complaining the council hasn’t sent you the final EHCP with the letter giving appeal rights it is legally obligated to do. Ask it to reissue the current plan with the letter. Then appeal to get 1:1 properly specified. My son had a full time TA funded because the school said that was the only way they could afford to accept him. The TA was never shared with other children. If the school can prove to the council it can’t afford to put the support in place then the council must provide extra funding. Schools need to get better at pushing back not short changing the children. The legal duty to implement section F is with the council, not the school.

Definitely not a Tory supporter. I come from a family of Tory supporters but I can assure you I'm not 😅

both of mind had ehcps in place at pre school, prior to starting school. My son is diagnosed with autism aged 4/5 but he had an EHCP a year before that point. With Dd she was rejected the first time but we got one after an Ed psych insisted to the council she needed one as she was severely speech delayed and had significant gross motor skill delays too. I had assumed it was based on learning needs rather than a formal diagnosis.. as diagnosis can take a long time (as can EHCP's of course)

if mine didn't have one before starting reception, we probably would have struggled to they them one. Their school is reluctant to apply for them which is totally wrong.

sadly there are many children with diagnoses that cannot get an EHCP.

@User473847284737 it sounds like your DD needs significant S&L therapy and occupational therapy support - are either of these written into her EHCP?