How would a young woman become financially independent?

[AbsentinSpring]

Without help from parents or an inheritance.

I've been pondering. I bought my first house (2 up 2 down Victorian terrace in not great area) 30+ years ago. I was single, worked in admin and earned slightly above average wage for that role. House cost £30k which was slightly less than 3x my salary and the interest rate was, for a time, 15%.

How could a young woman (who wasn't a hedge fund manager or corporate lawyer or such like) do that now?

That same house is now selling for £350k. And it's not in London or SE.

My DD1 is in her second property at age 31. Degree in econ from a prestigious university. I would advise young women to do degrees in mathematics-related subjects. Stats, econ, engineering...

YY to @Watchthesunrise

DD1 worked at everything she could from age 14. Worked through university, volunteered in an area in which she is now a national expert (US), was deliberate with credit card use and strategic with job choices. She also negotiates salary raises and signing bonuses like a boss.

Another piece of general advice: you can't know WHAT will go wrong in your life, but you can be sure that at some point, SOMETHING will.

I've mentioned my career up to house purchase, but here's some more context. After that purchase, my career accelerates significantly. Mostly, it has to be said, because I used my skills in financial planning! I was soon living the high life, and also squirelling away half my substantial pay cheque into savings and investments.

But (very long story short), I was harassed through work, suffered Long Covid, and burned out. I was savvy enough to get a settlement, and took on a simple PT job whilst I retrained. They are a really crap employer, but in my work break, I also clued up on other income streams, and earn more per hour from these than from my job. Helps me laugh through thankless days at work.

I'm now working hard on setting up my own business so that I can be financially independent from employment. My relationship has never been a financial issue. Employment has.

Which is why I strongly think you ought to open your mind as to what financial independence really is.

I'm advising my DD (17) to think longer-term than university, i.e., if she does X degree, what sort of career opportunities will it open up to her? She also doesn't know what she wants to do career-wise but knows that she wants to make money!

She's applying for engineering (currently thinking aerospace or mechanical) as it's a solid undergraduate degree. I wouldn't be surprised if she never works as an engineer, it's just a good base.

A friend's daughter is buying her first home. She's 27 and is £570k. She has saved hard and has a good paying job (something to do with diversity recruiting). She will have a roommate to help with the mortgage.
My stepson bought with his girlfriend a flat in a more rundown part of London - I think they paid about £350k. Both in their 20s. It's doable but of course depends on their job!

I did it at 21, in 1990 in the south west.
I chose not to go to university, but did a 2 year trade at a local college, (16 to 18) then worked for a good local business for the experience, (18 to 19) then set up a small business, I had no help but lived at home for 2 years . I paid a small rent to my parents.
I worked all hours, think 70/80 plus, and spent every minute improving my skills and learning via my local library about business skills....after 2 years l went to every bank in my local town and showed my accounts, l was patronisingly brushed off by male bank staff. ( come back when you have a husband)
So l went back again and again, each 3 months showing my slowly improving accounts each time...eventually l got a mortgage, l was 21 and couldn't really afford the 2 bedroom flat but immediately got a lodger. It remained hard for 3 years then became much easier.
I renovated it at night, spent no money on non essentials, continued working 7 days a week and bought my first investment flat at 24...
When l bought the cost of my flat was 4 1/2 times the average salary in that area.

Many young people should not be wasting their young years going to university.
It is a luxury many will regret, more should use apprenticeships and work training schemes. Degrees can be done at night school later, once you know what you really want to do.

You have to go all out to buy a home before children come along, work 2 jobs, work weekends, don't take holidays. Far to many won't do this.

A strong work ethic is severely lacking in most young people.

The best way to achieve this would be to not live in London or the SE and to have a professional career. £120K would buy a 2 bed property in Newcastle or Liverpool (so could have a lodger) or a 1 bed in Cardiff and a lawyer or accountant in their late 20s could earn around £30K - so a 4x earnings differential

In London - ignoring the big firms who pay massively more a realistic earnings figure would be around £40-50K and with £200k you'd be looking at a 1 bed in Croydon or Romford.....

The 90s was a very short blip. Throughout most of history it's been much harder than it is now.

Nobody's living on pasta and grass clippings, but some sacrifices are necessary. I moved to Yorkshire, which was cheaper than where I grew up, and studied hard. As a result I've always earned above average salary.

I still went out pretty much every weekend and had fun, but I didn't waste money on holidays every year, regular phone upgrades, and endless piles of clothes, as many of my friends did.

Totally agree @BeetrootBeetrootGhali

Also don't get into shitty relationships.

I certainly won’t be recommending uni straight up. I’ll be recommending a skilled trade ALONG with uni. Be it barbering or drywall or plumbing first then uni. The young people I’m seeing and admiring have good side jobs to a good education.

My stepson and his girlfriend both earned about £25,000. They lived with us for about a year for a small contribution while they lived frugally and saved a deposit. They took advantage of help to buy and bought in a less desirable area . They were able to purchase a 3 bedroom house and they are very happy . They just could not save while renting so we suggested they move in with us on a temporary basis .

@AbsentinSpring
You seem to think it's elitist to believe that university is the only way to become educated.

You're jousting at windmills there, I fear. Did you go to university yourself?

A degree is evidence of education, of a trained mind.

It's also the ticket to far higher earnings over a lifetime (in both short and long term) than secondary school qualifications.

If your daughter is keen on studying a language, classics, history, geography, sociology, or psychology at a well regarded university, I would give her my blessing. A year abroad would be attractive to a prospective employer.

I wouldn't be so enthusiastic about English Lit if she has no career area in mind, though grad schemes are always worth applying to and even Google has a non STEM intake.

With secondary school qualifications she could hope to work abroad as an au pair. Childcare is a dead end many young women end up in. No employer will be impressed by a year or two wiping bottoms and schlepping children to their Tae Kwan do classes in Rome or Vienna or wherever.

I am a young independent woman, albeit now married. I'm 28 and earn six figures. I grew up in poverty and my parents couldn't tell you what I did and where I work as they don't get it.

However, I was ambitious, worked hard. I chose my degree because I was 1. good at it and 2. it had career paths. I did not choose what I enjoyed most. I then did well, applied for grad schemes, did all the essays and got sponsored in my first year of Uni. My path was then designed for me by the grad scheme.

I work in finance now. I bought at 22, a flat outside of London in an area I didn't want to live but would do for then. I sold it for a profit and bought a bigger house with my now DH. I have outearned him for most our relationship as he is a teacher.

We are very very determined though. He always wanted to match my salary so he runs a business that I help with. I have always worked extra jobs such as Mystery Shopping, thrifting things, etc. I spend a lot of time on coupon sites etc. I didn't get to take risks as I had nothing to fall back on. Our lives aren't relaxing and enjoyment, they're 'work hard, play hard' culture. And now we are comfortable. Our investments make money, DH can quit as a teacher and do his business full time.

We are buying a house in the 7 figure range now. It's all about choose what is smart and secure, dealing with the rough for the good, and being resilient. Good things come to those who wait.

My biggest caveat though is that Mental Health often takes a back burner.

I think it's very hard for someone nowadays. Myself and my husband are planning on the basis that our kids just won't be able to do it and will require us to give them a financial start in order to eventually end up financially independent. But the best chance is to invest in yourself, consistently upskill or uplevel so your earnings increase and then you can save/invest etc and start to build wealth. But that is so much easier said than done. There are industries you can target, e.g. Tech, that make it more likely.

As a former City recruitment partner my advice would be to get the best degree you can from the best university you can get into. Usually reading a subject you love will give you a better result. WHilst a lot of grad schemes are now "university blind" the rest of your early career will probably be via agencies and they will highlight a candidate with a first from Oxford etc. So someone who is good at humanities would be far better advised to look at Oxford for Classics or Theology (as a pp suggested) than getting a STEM degree from a non-Russell group. Classicists and Theologians are usually popular with law firms and tax streams in the big Accountancy firms as their grasp of Greek/Latin grammar generally equips them well for reading legislation.

Study hard, at best possible universities, with as many scholarships or bursaries as you can find. Don't limit yourself to one country.

Always work extra on the sides, both at typical student jobs and other side earners (tutoring, mystery shopping, ebay type business, dog walking or whatever floats your boat).

Follow the money- move countries and jobs as needed. Spend plenty of student time volunteering or interning or whatever in your dream companies/industry. Socialise plenty.

Invest wisely- and always look for extra income such as renting spare rooms on either short or long term basis.

Accept that apart from a lucky few with large family houses in London or wherever this will mean moving away from family and friends.

A degree is evidence of education, of a trained mind

Maybe at

the US universities your Dc went to but not necessarily so in the UK where further education has become a business with bums on seats as a priority.

Dd is bright, very hard working, wants to study a MFL plus a humanities subject. STEM not an option. Whether she goes to university or not will be her choice and I'll support her.

It's what happens next that interests me hence the thread.

Humanities degree is fine. The most important thing she can do is NOT GIVE UP HER JOB IF SHE HAS KIDS. Do not depend on a man!

As long as she has a job, she will be financially independent, even if she rents.

Buying a house isn't the same as being financially independent. Earning your own money and not relying on a man or parents is.

No reason a Humanities degree from a good uni won't lead to a good career, especially if it involves a year abroad. I knew people at uni whose parents forced them to do 'practical' degrees in areas they weren't interested in. They were really miserable and many of them had dropped out of their predetermined 'good' careers by their mid 20s.

I studied History. It opened up my horizons and taught me how to think, in a way that just reading every history book in the library wouldn't, and while I don't have 'historian' in my job title I use those skills every single day. And yes, I am financially independent!

Please don't shrink your daughter's horizons for her.

I agree re the university route isn’t always best. I say this as someone who chose not to go to university, luckily I knew it was not for me and not the only path to independence/high salary. I chose to work and climbed my way up and am further ahead than I thought I would be at 32. I bought with my husband but I earn more and likely always will as the years go on as I am more ambitious.

I now know there are so many other routes a young person (or adult) can take without racking up £££s in debt by going to university. Apprenticeships (you now get degree level), T Levels, and Higher Technical Quals. All incorporate work placements which are much more valuable than what your average 18 year old will gain from their university experience.

Whilst I don’t believe university is for everyone, I do believe it is beneficial and necessary for some occupations. For someone like your daughter OP I’m afraid to say it but it sounds like a waste of 4 years especially as she is not entirely sure what she wants in the form of a career- I say this based on the the little information I have. Something like a degree level apprenticeship or HTQ could be equally or even more beneficial for her. So I understand your concern and will be making sure my kids make the right decision for them based on what career they would like /level
of debt etc

just depends where you live, argyll and bute nice area low crime low unemployment plenty of one bed flats below 100K
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/122137403#/floorplan?activePlan=1&channel=RES_BUY
it is above a fish and chip place but it shuts at 9-10pm not the quietest and no parking but 2 min walk to station then 45 minutes to central glasgow amazing views swimming pool and gym 2 minutes away
I would say this was obtainable for most working people in mid 20's would need about 10K deposit

I'm completely financially independent with children.
I've worked bloody hard to forge a professional career that puts me into high earning bracket, it's been tough and a slog but definitely possible. Absolutely no help from anyone. Choice of career is important of course.

Perhaps start by talking to her about what sort of career she’d be interested in. It’s often easier to figure out what you don’t want to do first, and then consider what you would find interesting.

My DD is pretty clueless career-wise, but she knows that she doesn’t want to teach, work in healthcare, the civil service or the law. Enjoys traveling but not hugely interested in languages or anything journalistic.

She also knows that she’s entrepreneurial, sociable, and a hands-on, technical sort of person. So engineering won’t hinder her career ambitions, IYSWIM.

in the UK where further education has become a business with bums on seats as a priority.

I agree in part with this. However, there are still universities that are very much 'seats of learning' whose various departments still carry gravitas insofar the quality of graduates they produce and blue chip prospective employers know this. Sadly, an awful lot of school leavers should not be anywhere near university as they have very average grades and would be better served doing more vocational training rather then racking up huge debt at a second rate uni studying a bullshit third rate degree that is barely recognised by industry. With the advent of tuition fees kids really need to look at the value for money and the employment prospects that a degree offers. It is all very well encouraging your children to 'follow their dreams' but I know far too many grads pulling pints down the pub or working minimum wage jobs while living at home with the folks because their degree is worth fuck all. It's an awful start in life to be in that much debt with a qualification that barely improves your lot.

I've saved at least 10% of everything I've ever earned, going back to when I was paid £1 per hour babysitting as a teenager.

I considered myself financially independent when I had a comforting chunk of money in savings, when Pay Day didn't have much significance anymore, and when I couldn't remember what my authorised overdraft was as I never used it (annoying when they ask this as a security question). I attained this whilst renting on my own. Buying a house added another layer of security.

I would never go out with anyone who can't live within their means. I wince when I hear younger colleagues talk about their partners' debts.