Any HR people (specifically nhs) who can help

[Mcintosh]

I am a mental health nurse who qualified just over a year ago and have been employed by the NHS for almost a year (a year next week)

In March I had 3 weeks off work sick, I finally reached the top of the waiting list for an operation after 3 years, the 3 weeks were totally needed and I probably went back a week too early looking back but it was fine. When I went back to work I had a back to work then my manager stated I would be put on a stage 1 sickness for my absence. He told me this during a ‘catch up’ where he asked me how I was feeling etc. I never heard anything after that, I have never had a formal meeting about the stage 1 nor received any documentation/notification.

Roll forward to this Friday, just as I was leaving the clinic to come home he approached me (I work in the community, I do not see him every week) to say I could expect to receive the notification in the post next week and that he was only just getting round to issuing it due to being so busy?!? Surely this is not correct or legal ? I returned to work over 5 months ago.

Following on from this, I have been really unwell this weekend, I have spent the weekend vomiting and have had loose stools. Obviously I can’t and won’t go in tomorrow but I am now panicking about my sickness record

I have googled and can’t find any time frames about how long an employer has to issue a sickness warning. Can anyone advise me on this? I’ll be ringing the Union tomorrow

Thanks

Oh also we use esr (not sure if the whole NHS does) is there anywhere I can check on there?

Go onto your intranet and pull up your attendance policy. It's a supportive policy with these stages put in Place to support you to stay in work. Don't worry about it, you've a valid reason for the triggering absence so there's not going to be anything bad comes from it. The policy will explain the process fully

Thank you I’ll take a look.

in regards to the stage 1, do you know if there is a set time frame for them to issue it?

Look at your hospital intranet for attendance policy.

2 weeks absence will trigger stage 1, but I wouldn't be worried about your 3 weeks post surgery absence as that's about the most straight forward reason for absence and isn't likely to recur.

I would expect it to be a tick box exercise for you.

If you have employee self service your absence record will be on there. If you were formally on stage I sickness then there are expected timelines to receive associated templated documentation however stage I is usually performed on an informal basis where an HRA is not usually involved. The absence policy will be available on the Trust external website or via the intra/extranet. Triggers may vary from trust to trust. I highly doubt you will be taken down the capability route particularly in your role where there are massive staff shortages. Trusts are under pressure to manage sickness absence so that those that need it can be supported and those that are taking the proverbial are managed appropriately. If
you have concerns take this up with your manager and follow up in writing. Hope this helps

Tbh it sounds like he's just a bit crap at paperwork, hence the lateness of you getting it confirmed in writing, but I'd expect any monitoring period (eg. if stage 1 means that you can't have more than X absences in the next 12 months or something) to be backdated to when you had the meeting as that was when you were actually moved onto stage 1, even if they haven't got round to sending you a letter about it quite yet.

If you get the letter this week and it says anything along the lines of 'you can only have X absences in the next 12 months from today' then I'd def speak to your manager and query why the monitoring period hasn't started from when you actually hit the trigger as it would be unreasonable for the period to be extended just because your manager hasn't got round to sorting a letter.

The three weeks you had will trigger a stage one attendance (anything more than 3 episodes or 10 days) automatically.

Were you set a sickness target?

If you are unwell again it will be discussed in your return to work and they might refer you to OH or do a wellness plan.

I wouldn't worry too much. I had 10 weeks off for an operation and my manager was moody about it but they just had to deal with it by following the national policy on sickness.

If you are a member of the RCN or Unison, contact your local rep who can attend any meetings and will ensure your manager follows the rules exactly.

No literally he came into the clinic and grabbed staff 1 by 1 for a quick catch up.

when it was my turn he asked me how I was feeling etc. Then said you being off will mean a stage 1 sickness but don’t worry about it. Youll receive a strongly worded letter in the park but don’t let it worry you, you just need to watch your sickness for the next 12 months. And that was literally it, never heard anything since until Friday . Nothing was recorded or written down during our ‘catch up’

In the post*

Stumbled into this and it’s another world really. If I had to have an operation in my workplace I’d be sent flowers and told to take it easy on my return. I wouldn’t be sent sternly worded letters. No wonder we have a retention crisis in NHS. Sorry you are going through such a stupid process.

Thank you @Libertyqueen 💕

Hopeful bump ♥️

He sounds totally inefficient. I was off last year for 2 months after a 2 week hospital admission.
I should of been given a stage one meeting. I wanted this meeting as it would have given me an opportunity to formalise return to work arrangements. It never took place but I struggled with my return to work as my manager was off and I had to just get on with it.
The main point of a stage one long term is to support you to get back to work.
I'm not sure that HR would support it 5 months later.
I certainly wouldn't worry you have been off for genuine reasons. The stage one is to support and the letter from a template.
Hope you feel better soon. Well done for doing such a valuable job.

It may be that, if you are 6 months back at work since the absence, you get a letter saying you are no longer being monitored.
Or NHS trust policy is as follows
either 3:6, 5:12 or over 28 days absent triggers an informal 1:1 meeting where we express concern, look at reasons, discuss what support we can offer such as counselling, occupational health, reasonable adjustments, look at work/ life balance etc.
You would agree targets for 6 month monitoring period and you would get an' outcome letter' detailing what was agreed. A 3 month review date is set( should have been June for you) to see how you had been and after 6 months you would meet again and if you have stayed within agreed absence numbers, the formal monitoring would stop.
If you trigger again whilst being monitored you move to stage 1 and you should get an official invite to this plus an outcome letter. Again you would set improvement targets and monitor with a 3 month review. We then have Stage 2 which HR attends and staff can bring a union rep and or friend.
Final stage is stage 3 where you can have contact terminated if nothing is improving.

Hopefully, all he meant was, I have finally typed the outcome letter for you!

Genuinely I’ve had nothing like that, literally he asked how I was, how I was feeling, talked
a bit about what had been
happening whilst I was off then mentioned the stage 1 and just said don’t worry about the wording it’s just a formality. Nothing at all was written down, there were no discussions about if I needed many support , changes etc. i feel worse this morning but I’m going to ring my Union when they open just for their advice. I know I’m not going get the sack and I’m off for a genuine reason but I just find him so inefficient and incompetent (not just with this, SO many other things as well such as he does the uniform offering. I didn’t have a uniform for 6 months due to ‘supply issues’ so had To buy my own from Amazon, eventually I rang the uniform place myself and he’d never confirmed the order!!!, I rang him and he did it there and then, my
uniform was delivered the next day 🙄) that I want to make sure he does everything correct.

I'd appeal it on 2 things.

A stage 1 is valid for a year. In effect yours will be valid for 17 months from your return

Planned surgery is usually excluded from triggers anyway

And as a third... he hasn't followed the policy.

Ask your union for advice.

vdbfamily has explained exactly how the NHS sick was policy works. Don't worry, your manager is just slack at paperwork. Tell home you have not received your letter yet. Have you had any more sickness? The NHS sickness policy has recently changed and seems heavy handed but, stage 1 is intended to be very informal.

I have spoken to the union, she said I needed to check the trust policy but if I was put on a stage 2 to contact them again and they would check the policy had been followed

so I’ve checked on the intranet, it states I should have had at least 4 days notice of a stage 1 meeting at which they would have talked through why I was absent, if I needed any support etc. after this the minutes of the meeting would be given to me in writing and uploaded to my personal record. None of this happened so I’m not going to worry now, I’m genuinely poorly and don’t need the stress. I worked (from home) through having covid twice even though the second time I was really ill. So I’m just going to get myself better and not worry!

Ps no, I had the time off after my op, I have had 3 days bereavement leave (close family member died, I had 3 days bereavement and then 2 weeks annual leave that was already booked in ) and then my sick leave today