Is this standard for nursery?

[Reesewithafork]

this is my first experience so not sure and I’m not trying to disparage nursery workers in any way I know it’s a bloody hard job and I couldn’t do it for sure.

The nursery has a really high staff turnover. DS is on his third key person since April. Also wasn’t advised of the changes either time, just turned up to find they had gone. They are constantly short staffed with staff coming in with sickness bugs etc because otherwise they would have to close.

DS comes out absolutely filthy every day. I don’t mean a bit of paint and messy play muck, I’m not precious about that at all, but I’m talking food encrusted around his face when he would have eaten ages ago, crusty snot smeared across his face, his hands are usually completely black and filthy.

I don’t really get any kind of info on how he’s developing. I get a bit of a summary when I pick him up such as he’s been playing with x,y,z he’s eaten all his lunch etc
but never anything about how he’s progressing, any areas he might need extra support, things I can do to help him improve.

a few of the staff are lovely but the management are very very dismissive, always treat me like I’m a nuisance (maybe I am!) when I’m doing things like signing in his medication, I overheard one of the managers saying FFS I don’t have one of those forms right now (it was for antibiotics that he had to take throughout the day).

I’m not that impressed but I do like his key person and his Buddy key person they are brilliant and he loves them which has made me pause.

just wondered if this is just the way it is and perhaps I was expecting too much?

Thats not our experience of nursery at all. There is a bit of staff turnover, but nothing like that and it’s well communicated.

Dd always has a healthy coating of paint and mud, but not wiping up food really isn’t great.

No. That is not good enough.

I mean, there is a real shortage of Nursery staff these days, but it is not acceptable to not wipe a child's face, or any of the stuff you describe beneath that.

No I wouldn't be happy tbh.

His third key person in 5 months I would be asking. I would also expect to be told.

Doesn't take anything to wipe a child's face after food.

Manager sounds a delight

I’d be looking for a new nursery to be honest; the staff turnover is probably due to the management and even nice lovely caring workers struggle to thrive when management and the ethos is like that so either standards drop or they leave

Thanks I don’t have anything to compare it too

he always comes out happy which is something

It sounds very badly run. If they are taking short cuts about stuff like wiping his face, what else are they not doing?

That level of staff turn over coupled with your experience of the manager would be ringing deafening alarm bells for me.

The snot and food mess is unacceptable.

I don't think you can expect more from handover than a description of what he's been doing etc. I would expect a more detailed meeting maybe twice a year at parents evening or from an end of year report/file. I wouldn't expect them to be briefing you on his global development on a daily/weekly basis.

I’m not sure if it’s because they are short staffed and training new staff up, but I thought at the very least hands and face would be wiped. Sometimes it’s like he’s had a half hearted face wipe but there is always still food around his face.

No, not acceptable on balance.

• High turnover not always an issue but it depends why- my DD is on her 3rd since she started in Feb - first went on earlier than planned mat leave in due to SPD, and her second has just left to go and do her PGCE at university. A high turnover at your nursery might be linked to poor workplace environment.
• The dirt would concern me. As you say, a bit of paint and mud - absolutely fine and to be expected. Grotty hands and face - nope.
• Progress - They don't have chance at handover to go into detail but they should be documenting and evidencing his progress and milestone achievement. I believe this is part of ofstead pilicies. At my DCs first nursery a paper file was kept and St DC#3 current nursery its all documented on an app we use - staff and parents can record achievements and provide pictures amd comments. At both nurseries (covid exceptions) there were mini parents evening to discuss progress milestones and next steps. Ask what the process is and to see it.
• management attitude is bad. Being made to feel like you're a bit of a pain I you're making unreasonable demands is one thing, but over medication forms? That's bad.

I'd look to move him

@NuffSaidSam thanks I wasn’t sure in terms of development I don’t expect it every day or anything just have no idea if there’s a specific structure, or how it’s working. It doesn’t really fit with how they sold it to me when I came to look around. But sounds like they’re doing what they should be on that front in that case.

it was good for the first few weeks but then it just seems to have gone downhill.

It doesn’t sound great. They need to keep up a basic level of hygiene - e.g, washing faces and hands every now and again.

My DS is usually changed into the spare set of clothes we’ve sent because he gets lunch on his top (still not great at feeding himself with a spoon).

I know childcare is a short staffed sector, but presumably it’s not the best place to work if people are leaving so often.

Are there any other nurseries you could consider?

Thanks there is an app and it’s updated with pictures and nappy changes but the framework bit and development bits are always left blank. I haven’t really asked about it as I wasn’t sure what was the norm or not.

There are a couple of others which I’ve arranged to see I just wasn’t sure if I was overreacting or not

That's not on and was never my experience of nursery.

I'd find another one.

Nope not over reacting imo, and I'm a pretty laid back mum to 3 kids. Go with your gut instinct and if you're not happy, move him

DD often comes out of nursery absolutely filthy, snot/food/dirt, but she also absolutely freaking hates having her face and hands washed, to the point of hyperventilation and an hour's long sobbing fit, so we frequently don't bother at home and just bathe her at the end of the day, which she loves. After the first week of her basically ruining her own day every time they tried to clean her, nursery asked if we would be OK with them just doing the best they could and leaving her a bit grubbier than the other kids if she was v upset. So for us this would be normal, but it doesn't sound great if there's been no communication about it.

I work in a nursery and it's tough at the moment. Recruiting and keeping qualified staff is very difficult because it's a poorly paid job but with a lot to do and a lot of responsibility to be However, what you describe is unacceptable. I am strict about 'clean face, hands, nappy' and my ten key children get daily moments, weekly development snapshots and monthly learning stories uploaded to the app. They also have an in depth assessment every six months. I'm a professional and these are my standards, whether or not the working environment is hard going.

Thank you this is really useful

@katef yes I didn’t want it to come across like I was being bitchy or unfair as I know how tricky it is at the moment and I know it’s not an easy job at the best of times

Yeah that would definitely ring alarm bells for me, especially the lack of consistency with the key worker situation. It would make me question the working environment & staff welfare - you want the people looking after your children to be happy to work there. We get daily updates on the app at the end of the day with food/sleep/nappies, weekly (sometimes 2-3 times a week) observations with pictures, and a description of how that activity has contributed to their learning & development. My son sometimes comes out in clothes with a bit of food on but only usually if they have lots of them in and I’ve picked him up close to tea time finishing - usually if I’m a bit later they will have changed him. Never has food round his face though. That’s just my experience of nursery, I would be looking at changing if I was in your position but then it’s easier said than done!

It seems to be happening in some nurseries. We’ve been recruiting for nursery staff and very few applications. I have friends who have gone to Lidl over early years as they get paid more and don’t need to take work home.

on Early years groups I’m on people are leaving in droves.

My 20 month old has been in nursery since April. They change his clothes multiple times a day, which annoys me because when I get home to wash them it's a little of mud/sauce/water etc. they always apologise if he has food on his face (I like to get there 10 mins early to avoid the 4pm rush of parents and he hasn't always finished his tea when I arrive!) they are hot on hand washing before and after every activity/meal. His key carer has changed but it was well communicated and only once. Usual handover and little written sheet but I expect there will be more observations at a set time over the year. (They haven't specified this though)
Your nursery sounds like it could use a few improvements

I'd be looking for a new nursery

Thanks, I have been looking around but wasn’t sure if I was overreacting because DS does seem happy there. But he wouldn’t know any better about these things really (although he doesn’t like his hands being dirty)

Think I’ve found another nursery so feel a bit better about things now. Thanks for all
the input.