Why are inset days included in published term dates?

[ClumpingBambooIsALie]

As far as I understand it, when Baker days were introduced, they were five days for teacher CPD, taken from school holiday (i.e. the number of days kids were in school stayed the same).

But when term dates for schools are published, they always include the inset days as term-time days.

This makes it look as though time is being taken away from teaching kids, which it isn't.

But my main issue with it is that it can also be confusing if, as with my local schools, the term dates are on a different part of the webpage or a different page altogether from the inset days, if the inset days have even been decided yet (so you have to mentally knock those ones off the official term dates when working out when kids are expected in school). Surely the vast majority of the people who need to know term dates are actually in need of information about what days the kids are expected in school? It seems like it would make more sense for inset days to be tacked onto one end of the term/half-term as it is now, but considered not term-time for the purposes of published term dates… is it to allow for training days partway through the term or something?

(I don't have kids in school, I use term dates mainly to predict parking and traffic in my area, among other things.)

Thanks Fink — so yeah, sounds like it's a flexibility thing…

I'm not sure exactly what it is I've said that's made several people think I want schools all to have the same dates It must be something in what I've written for several people to interpret me that way. Maybe because term dates are set by the authority, and then schools vary within that in where they put their inset days. What I was wondering was only why schools don't tend to do something a bit like what Tinkerblonde's does: the calendar just includes the dates the pupils are in school — and treat inset days as not term time at that school, for the purposes of what the vast majority of people looking for term dates need to know. For an outsider, it's not always easy to tell why things are the way they are so I appreciate the info from insiders. It sounds like one of the main reasons they don't do it like that is because it's easier for schools to be able to put inset days in whichever teaching week they want, or chop and change which days the kids aren't in, if they want to.

We've had parents phone school in a panic before because they saw all the staff cars in the car park for a training day and thought they'd got the term dates wrong.

Ours now puts the training days underneath the term dates and makes it clear that the school will be closed to children on those days.

Just to throw a spanner in the works OP, the person that wrote the parking regulations, did the mean the term dated including the inset days (195) or excluding them (190)

Well quite! Who knows what terrible risks may be taken those five days by someone coming home with a week's shopping in the car and the next nearest spot five minutes' walk away… a veritable parking-ticket minefield.

Also, don't underestimate the parents who will complain to school about there being no inset days, or repeatedly asking when they are, if schools just include them as holidays on the calendar! And the parents who will panic when they see staff cars at school on inset days.

The best practise imo is stating very clearly on the calendar eg: 1st and 2nd September INSET, 5th first day of term etc.

The way your local schools are doing it seems unnecesarily complicated!

Inset days are in term time, as standard.

Term dates are set my local authorities for the area. Inset days are chosen by the school and can be at any point during the term (not in holidays as teacher holidays are obviously the same as the kids).

Teachers need to carry out annual training and, in my opinion, shouldn't be made to give up more holiday time for it as a favour to parents.

Teachers need to carry out annual training and, in my opinion, shouldn't be made to give up more holiday time for it as a favour to parents.

You say that as though someone argued otherwise

I was asking if someone could explain why for the purposes of public communication those days are classified as term-time days rather than non-term-time days (especially since they were originally taken from teachers' holiday days rather than from term-time, as I mentioned in my OP), which I found slightly confusing as, only going from my own experience, they tend to be wedged between term-time and holiday. Not arguing for more of teachers' holidays to be used for training.

I'm finding this defensiveness kind of weird. I've said nothing against teachers and haven't argued for anything to be taken away from them or forced on them. I've tried to be as clear as possible about the fact children do not lose out and have never lost out from inset days and not said anything about what I think teachers ought or ought not to be required to do. I don't know nearly enough about teaching to do that.

I asked a boring question about classification of days, which has been answered with useful explanations from some.

parents who will complain to school about there being no inset days

There's no pleasing some folk

They are allowed less in exceptional circumstances, snow days being the classic example, and one year my DC's school was closed for a day due to a (minor) fire. I wouldn't expect this to be planned in advance though.

Snow days! Aw, I remember listening to the local radio station in the morning as a kid, hoping my school's name would come up on the closed list.

Never bloody was. Hardy people in that town. Wellies through foot-deep snow wasn't enough to merit closure. 😐 Nor regular-as-clockwork breakdown of the school boiler as soon as the coldest weather hit. Nor lack of clean water to the school — "No water this lunchtime, children, it's coming through brown again". Nor leaking roofs with three buckets in every classroom. I have no idea how the teachers got in; they weren't all local. Some impressive driving skills, I suspect.

At my child's school the website publishes term dates only. Teacher training days are sent by the school app to parents only. Many of these fall on mid week days during term time and many are changed over the course of the year if current days no longer work ( often notifying a parent a week before). If you are not a parent these dates have nothing to do with you.

If you are not a parent these dates have nothing to do with you.

They have everything to do with me if journeys at certain times of day are going to be significantly delayed so I need to set off ten minutes earlier for my doctor's appointment, if parking my car within a five minute walk of my house at certain times of day is going to be impossible so I should time my return differently, or if I need to account for any of the other things that the arrival/departure of hundreds of people, all at the same time, can affect.

I live near a school, nobody's forcing me to do that, but it's helpful if the school provides what info they can to ameliorate the impact somewhat. What harm does it do your kids if the people living near their school know when inset days are? It's hardly dangerous or difficult info to release.

Thankfully most schools' managements seem to realise that their school is within a community, and both affects and is affected by that community.

My DCs primary school take the standard term dates calendar that the council publish and add their inset dates in a different colour, then put it on their website.

I actually live near several schools, but particularly close to one. I don't make a mental note of term dates and inset days because I find them particularly thrilling or because I want to do something nefarious with info that's "nothing to do with me", I do it because it makes my life easier on a practical level to know what days local kids are going to be in school.

ClumpingBambooIsALie

I'm not sure exactly what it is I've said that's made several people think I want schools all to have the same dates Confused It must be something in what I've written for several people to interpret me that way.

I didn't think that you meant that, I was just explaining that it wouldn't solve all the issues, especially if the parents had children in different LAs.

Ah right Fripp. No, I don't think it would solve all issues, and wasn't making a proposal for change because, as I said, I was coming from a position of not knowing and being interested why, rather than thinking I had all the answers. I was just genuinely wondering why, when training days were introduced, they were added on as term-time days, and and why that's how they're conceptualised and listed, when it seemed to me it might make more sense from a parent/student/random member of public perspective if they were categorised as not term-time. I came at this actually wondering why it was done this way, not as a way to make weird digs at teachers (as a few posters seem to have interpreted it).

SE London council. The council website has term dates for Autum now: 1.9 - 17.12.2022

School website: same dates with the comment that 1.9 is an Inset day

Spring: 4.1.2023 to end of March, school website, again same dates and then 4.1.2023 = Inset Day

Parking restrictions would be in accordance with the council dates I would assume.