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Original poster

What to do about the NHS?

34 replies

underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:06

So my DS(14) fell out of a tree yesterday evening and broke his arm - it was obviously broken and he was in a lot of pain. I put it in a sling and rung 111 and we were 30mins late for minor injuries, so A&E it was.

So, I wasn't expecting Saturday evening to be great, but when we got there at 9pm, there were 5 patients in the first waiting room, all with someone with them.

He was triaged within an hour and x-rayed within the next 20 minutes. Then sent to the next waiting area which had 10 patients in it including him. Some people also had a helper with them, including a. After a couple of hours, most of us had started chatting and I looked at the eye of px (f) and been to reception to say that was the likely diagnosis and they'd asked an ophthalmologist to come down to have a look.

2 (a&b) were having obvious mental health crises, one poor guy had a towel covering his head as he clearly couldn't manage seeing anyone/anything.
The other woman started banging her head on the wall and was actually taken though quickly - although they didn't clean the blood off the wall - I did after an hour.

2 (c&d) had back issues, the man had been waiting for a discectomy for 2 years and was disabled and the woman had been told to attend a&E by 111 - she had slight pins and needles in one of her hands consistent with a disc prolapse. She was perfectly mobile.

There was lady with a baby who had a suspect DVT. (e)

The man with uveitis (f)

Someone with a suspected broken toe. (g)

someone who had a chesty cough and couldn't get an appointment with their doctor (h)

A (very overweight) woman with swollen calves, who did actually leave after 2.5 hours (i)

DS was taken through to a cubicle at 3am, having arrived at 9pm. He was exhausted and in pain. We finally left at 5am. There was no transport to get us anywhere and no taxis available and we had to walk to the nearest hotel.

So what is the answer?
(a) and (b) shouldn't have been there in the first place, mental health services need to improve massively and there needs to be specialist support.
(c) should have had his op. (d) shouldn't have been told to go to A&E in the first place - (g) &(h) should have been turned away from A&E
(e) should have been seen preferentially.

The other major issue when we actually went through to a cubicle was the utter lack of urgency by any of the healthcare staff. No-one seemed that bothered about doing their job quickly. There was lots of chatting, wandering. Our cubicle was filthy. I did pop round to take sure there hadn't been a massive emergency, but everything was really quiet in the trauma part. I also know that August is rotation time for junior doctors and they need to learn.

I really think there needs to be a complete overhaul of the NHS - higher earners like me need to pay more, but something felt fundamentally wrong.

OP posts:
Original poster
underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:07

Oh and I also forgot to mention that I'm an Optometrist and i did work for the NHS for 6 months - the bureaucracy drove me mad. But, I'm used to seeing a lot of patients in close succession.

OP posts:
BuddhaAtSea · 28/08/2022 22:16

A&E hasn’t got desks where the ortho/GI/gynae etc wait for patients. The same person covers theatres/wards/A&E/codes etc.
They get notified and then prioritise, they come and see you as soon as they descrubbed/finished what they were doing with other patients.
They’re not based in A&E.

Original poster
underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:23

BuddhaAtSea · 28/08/2022 22:16

A&E hasn’t got desks where the ortho/GI/gynae etc wait for patients. The same person covers theatres/wards/A&E/codes etc.
They get notified and then prioritise, they come and see you as soon as they descrubbed/finished what they were doing with other patients.
They’re not based in A&E.

It does - for example for an on call ophthalmologist, but and A&E is staffed too by A&E doctors who are able to treat things like wounds, breaks etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:31

I'm also not complaining - junior doctors cannot learn to treat and time manage at the same time and that's not the main complaint as people who were really, really unwell were in the space queue as people who could have stayed at home.

Everything needs overhauling.

OP posts:
bunintheoven88 · 28/08/2022 22:39

I agree it needs a massive overhaul, but that needs money and staff are burnt out. I'm a mental health nurse newly qualified and feel a little lost with my career path. I do not know what the answer is and find it worrying. I hope your son is doing better now after his fall 💐

Original poster
underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:58

@bunintheoven88 he's fine thank you.

I love the fact we have free health care and TBH I'd like lots of people to suggest things so I can then poke my MP or the labour conservative people who watch these threads can pick it up, or even the DM.

The few things I could suggest, like moving cataract pre-/post op - quick AMD referral and acute eye services have already been done. But we have a high street present and a professional body who is keen on promoting eye care.

I few little fixes make a big one.

OP posts:
Firty · 28/08/2022 23:21

underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:58

@bunintheoven88 he's fine thank you.

I love the fact we have free health care and TBH I'd like lots of people to suggest things so I can then poke my MP or the labour conservative people who watch these threads can pick it up, or even the DM.

The few things I could suggest, like moving cataract pre-/post op - quick AMD referral and acute eye services have already been done. But we have a high street present and a professional body who is keen on promoting eye care.

I few little fixes make a big one.

It isn’t ‘free’ - workers in the UK pay a fortune in tax to fund services like the NHS (most other countries have lower income tax). Politicians keep saying its free to brainwash us into accepting appalling standards of healthcare. People in UK are literally dying from illnesses that could have been treated if they’d been given help when they first asked.

The NHS staff are burnt out, huge numbers of people are sent to A&E that don’t need to be there but are there because local services like GP and minor injuries are so broken, the whole thing does indeed need a massive overhaul.

(Raising tax on booze would probably help, a lot of drunk people end up in A&E.)

Part of the problem is that the script in so many services funnels people towards A&E. I know when I’ve sought help from local services for relatively minor stuff I’ve been told ‘you must go to A&E’.

Jansobieski · 29/08/2022 03:21

What weird thread.
Think it’s quite dodgy that you seem to know exactly what people were attending A/E for and have then listed it in detail on a public website. Then the fact that you wandered around to check up on the staff and see if there were any emergencies. Moaning about scarce resources then wondering why there was no transport or advice about local hotels is a bit tone deaf….

user478965227857 · 29/08/2022 05:19

Christ.

You think you can dictate who is seen in A&E and who you should send home? That's not how it works.

Why do you know so much about these poor people?

You choosing not to arrange how to get home and choosing to stay in a hotel after 5am is on you, no one else.

knitnerd90 · 29/08/2022 05:27

We have these threads every week, but the answer is that people will not stop going to A&E for these issues until there is a properly funded and staffed GP service that can be accessed promptly, and preferably an out of hours/urgent care/walk in service (and not just one staffed by nurses). It's all well and good to tell people to "go to the GP" but if they can't go, they're going to wind up in A&E.

maddy68 · 29/08/2022 05:30

underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:23

It does - for example for an on call ophthalmologist, but and A&E is staffed too by A&E doctors who are able to treat things like wounds, breaks etc.

Show quote history

Over a decade of running the NHS into the ground so it can be deemed unfit and ready for privitisation comes at a cost.

It's all a shambles now sadly

torquewench · 29/08/2022 05:57

Jansobieski · 29/08/2022 03:21

What weird thread.
Think it’s quite dodgy that you seem to know exactly what people were attending A/E for and have then listed it in detail on a public website. Then the fact that you wandered around to check up on the staff and see if there were any emergencies. Moaning about scarce resources then wondering why there was no transport or advice about local hotels is a bit tone deaf….

I thought the OP was weird too. It started off plausibly enough, then it basically turned into the plot of an episode of Casualty.

Brahumbug · 29/08/2022 06:00

@Firty "most other countries have lower income tax"
Sorry, but you are wildly wrong. The only country in Europe with a lower rate of taxis Hungary. Most are higher and many are much higher Denmark is 55.9% for example. The Tories have conned people for years that you can have Scandinavian levels of service with low levels of taxation.

itsjustnotok · 29/08/2022 06:10

I cannot believe that you know the ins and outs of each patient and have the audacity to suggest who should or should not be there. Having a mooch round in the ‘trauma’ area…really? Most are totally separate to the general A&E and if you were caught having a little look I would wonder who the hell you are? It sucks that your child waited so long but you aren’t in a position to know why or to decide they weren’t really busy. This is a really bizarre post. And speciality teams do not generally sit in A&E waiting for a patient to randomly turn up.

ThermoSpooklear · 29/08/2022 06:14

Are you actually saying that you personally assessed, diagnosed and made a referral at the reception desk of another patient in the waiting room? Your OP is confusing.

Strangers really seem to open up to you, OP. Perhaps consider a career move into the police or counselling...or a script editor?

TigerRag · 29/08/2022 07:28

underneaththeash · 28/08/2022 22:07

Oh and I also forgot to mention that I'm an Optometrist and i did work for the NHS for 6 months - the bureaucracy drove me mad. But, I'm used to seeing a lot of patients in close succession.

How does being an Optometrist mean you also know everything about spinal problems? I have a friend who ended up with a serious back injury in 2019. He had to wait until last summer to get operated on. He said that a few months previously, he was struggling to walk.

And as for the chesty cough - may also have asthma or similar medical problems on top.

What an odd thread.

olympicsrock · 29/08/2022 07:36

NHS 111 is awaste of time as they always tell you to be on the safe side abs go to A and E.

Perhaps the doctors and nurses are super tired at 3 4 5 am and just pacing themselves rather than rushing.
perhaps the cleaner called in sick?

KleineDracheKokosnuss · 29/08/2022 07:38

The broken toe probably couldn’t get to an out of hours and - this may come as a surprise to you - not everyone knows that doctors don’t do anything for broken toes unless they’ve twisted. It’s a suspected break, and they went to ACCIDENT and emergency. They will go home relieved and know what they need to do. It may have been better if they’d had a GP appointment to check on it, but since they’re gold dust, A&E it is.

The chesty cough may have had that cough for weeks, be unable to get to a GP (see above) and it could turn out to be cancer. It could be another case of “no one would help me until I refused to leave and hey presto it turns out it’s terminal” that we can all read about in the daily Mail. You’re not actually in a position to judge, and neither is a gatekeeper at a&e who isn’t a qualified doctor sitting down with the patient and doing their job properly.

And no, having had a chat with them doesn’t mean you can judge. No patient is going to divulge all their details to a random person they happen to meet in a&e.

RedRobyn101 · 29/08/2022 07:56

To fix it quickly you could charge people. In the long term we need more money put in to train more staff in particular gps and perhaps have a clause that post med school you need to work in the nhs for at least 5 years post qualifying. Compared to most countries we don’t pay a lot in to the nhs, but over the years governments have conned us into thinking that we have paid enough already but in reality that’s far from true.

Ownedbyabeagle · 29/08/2022 07:58

While I agree the NHS is in a mess and something has to change I also find it odd that you think you can judge who should or shouldn't be there. You may be an optometrist but you aren't a specialist in spinal injury, respiratory disease etc. Why the mention of the ladies weight? Pins and needles, likely disc prolapse?? Do you really think you can diagnose people from a few minutes conversation?

TigerRag · 29/08/2022 08:08

RedRobyn101 · 29/08/2022 07:56

To fix it quickly you could charge people. In the long term we need more money put in to train more staff in particular gps and perhaps have a clause that post med school you need to work in the nhs for at least 5 years post qualifying. Compared to most countries we don’t pay a lot in to the nhs, but over the years governments have conned us into thinking that we have paid enough already but in reality that’s far from true.

Charging people sounds great. Penalising the disabled and sounds like an admin nightmare. And what happens if someone can't afford to pay?

fannyfan · 29/08/2022 08:11

How do you know so much about these patients and why shave you put it on line?

fannyfan · 29/08/2022 08:11

Have not shave ffs

fannyfan · 29/08/2022 08:13

And why the fuck were you wandering around checking for traumas?

Wtf is this thread?

dottyrobin · 29/08/2022 08:13

All of the things you have written would be fixed with more members of staff. Even the people you have deemed not suitable for A&E would be seen quickly and advised.

People are leaving in their droves because of shitty hours, poor work life balance, so much red tape, pay etc etc.

If more people were trained and retained and valued, most of the issues you've seen would vanish.

There's no quick fix