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Tell me about living in France

50 replies

Footballmatchdilemma · 22/08/2022 08:52

I really enjoyed the threads recently about Germany in Switzerland, and I’m coming to the end of a holiday in France. Everything seems so lovely here -the people are endlessly polite and charming, the towns are clean and the roads are empty (if expensive due to the tolls). Nowhere seems as crowded and stressful as the UK.

I can’t live in France (thanks, Brexit and also my terrible school girl French), but if I could, would it live up to my fantasies (in which I would also be tall, willowy and have an amazing French accent)?

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 22/08/2022 11:07

Our village is 60% Brits. We hear more British voices than French here. It really is quite odd.

Humphriescushion · 22/08/2022 11:17

Oh I find the opposite to be true, found my face didn’t fit the expat community and did not feel very welcome, but made lots of French friends.

LaChatte · 22/08/2022 11:34

I'm not part of an expat community, there is one other Brit in my village but don't socialise with them.

I find roads safer here, so long as you know the rules and don't have to rely on signposts! 😅

We're also veggie, but don't really eat processed food so haven't suffered from lack of Quorn. DCs (not veggie) 'miss' bacon (they were both born here and haven't grown up with bacon 🤔 ).

We have Freesat, so can watch British TV. Internet has made keeping in touch with friends and family so much easier.

I love going back to England for a week's holiday from time to time, but I could never move back. Despite all the red tape and traditional/conservative mentalities, I much prefer living here.

kersh33 · 22/08/2022 11:45

I've lived in France on and off for about 15 years - been back for the last 5 years and don't think I'll ever go back.

I am bilingual in French which is hugely helpful - most people don't know I'm not French.

Compared to the UK the food is expensive - the fruit in particular is much better, everything else is much of a much muchness in my opinion unless you want to spend proper money, in which case the food is very good quality. Oh and the cheese options are amazing. And the wine 

I think the biggest reason I wouldn't go back to the UK is the healthcare. I gave birth here and the care was amazing post pre and post partum. I can see my gp without an appointment if I want to as long as I don't mind waiting or I can get an appointment within a day or two. My DDs paediatrician will see her same day or next in case of emergency or is contactable by phone if needed for advice. Otherwise we have 2 walk in paediatric emergency clinics within 30 minutes drive with extended opening hours.

I see my gynaecologist every year for a check up and I can get seen by a specialist or any tests or imaging within a few months for routine appointments and much quicker if it's urgent.

As mentioned by a PP our energy costs have been capped at a 4% increase so far and there is currently a 15c reduction in fuel costs paid for by the government. France is one of the least unequal western societies as it is so redistributive but it does mean we pay a lot of tax and if you are a reasonable earner you pay in a lot more than you get back. Childcare is much more affordable than the UK too which is also helpful.

Broadly I love it here even if the culture is quite different and I sometimes miss the very open and diverse feeling you get in the UK.

garlictwist · 22/08/2022 12:16

TwoBlondes · 22/08/2022 10:12

I think LaChatte sums it up really well.

There's a lot more focus on family, friends and food here, and just "being " is important. The importance of seasonal food is funny, I know exactly what I'm going to get to eat when I go to friends !

I feel very protected by the state, they were very quick off the mark with cost of living and fuel subsidies.

I remember for the first few months I lived in France I was invited to a colleague's every week for a family dinner every Sunday. I found it so painful. There was so much food, so many courses and it lasted hours and hours and hours. Every.Single.Week.

There are so many better ways of spending a weekend than sitting at a table and eating with your family, it always felt like having Christmas day every week.

Pertulagordinosbestmate · 22/08/2022 12:21

I’ve just returned from France after living there for 7 years. Don’t do it.

Everything is expensive, they tax you to high heaven, nothing open when you need it, schooling is very old fashioned with zero pastoral care. We had a business and it’s virtually impossible to make any money. Don’t even get me started on paperwork 😂.

We found the expats there to be very bitchy and cliquey. Most French will never fully accept foreigners, but we were very rural. On the plus side we made a killing selling our house when we left, prices have shot up.

im glad to be home.

Decidualcast · 22/08/2022 12:36

Following with interest after returning from a gorgeous holiday in Paris and Provence. I had nothing but positive experiences there - people, transport, lifestyle. Returned to a depressing UK and will be reassessing my life in the coming weeks.

Creativecrafts · 22/08/2022 12:48

DH and I lived in rural France for many years. It was a fantastic experience - we got to do grape picking with the villagers, the scenery is to dream about (Montagne Noir région), and fabulous restaurants overlooking the Med. We did find it very backward looking though, in comparison with the UK. The women mostly stayed at home and did childcare. In our area many girls weren't expected to have a career.
Also, two cars were essential - if one broke down there were no shops in walking distance.
We've been back in the UK for a few years now and are happy with it, but so glad to have had the experience of life in France.

Footballmatchdilemma · 22/08/2022 12:51

I think it’s the sense of space and freedom to move around I like so much. Even Paris doesn’t feel as crowed as uk cities!

Interesting to hear all the different views though, thank you. I suppose everywhere has its negative points.

OP posts:
notimagain · 22/08/2022 13:01

But to be fair insular locals, needing two cars and it being miles to the nearest supermarket is not something uniquely French, you can also easily find in quite a few parts of the UK.....

It can however come as a hell of shock if you move from UK suburbia to somewhere like the Lozere.....

thefizz · 22/08/2022 13:29

I'm a townie. I could never live in a very rural area. Well I can't anyway as I am unable to drive because an illness prevents it now so I need to be close to public transport!

Anyhow, one of my friends and her family have a tiny little place (think airbeds and bunkbeds and all in together lol) in the Aude region. It is in a town near Carcassonne that has a train station that gets you to Toulouse in one direction and Narbonne on the Canal du Midi in the other direction. The house has a tiny courtyard garden and the town has a bar/cafe, boulangerie, a small Casino supermarket. Everything you need.

They are selling up next year and I am so tempted to buy it! But I am so unsure. The family would give me first dibs. Decisions, decisions!

LittleLlama · 22/08/2022 13:47

My Mum lives in France and the best benefit is their health service which is incredible compared to the U.K. As she lived there before Brexit she was able to get residence status and the local Mayor was really helpful. The food is good but more expensive, especially meat. She lives quite rurally and everyone has always been very friendly and welcoming. Motorway charges can make travelling quite expensive. Trains are very reliable and clean. Overall the positives for her outweigh any negatives.

kersh33 · 23/08/2022 13:21

I think the final thing is that quite a lot of expat feedback ( including on this thread) is from people who lived very rurally which has a different set of challenges. I live in a large southern city by the sea with a large student population. There is an expat population but equally you can make friends outside of it if you get involved in other activities. There is lots to see and do, a great outdoors lifestyle and nice weather all year round (if you can cope with the heat in summer). But even within walking distance of the tran you can have a house with a pool, garden etc... so it doesn't all have to be hyper rural, cliquey areas.

Brigante9 · 23/08/2022 14:06

Property prices are still very low if you’re after land, approximately a 3rd in areas like Aquitaine compared to eg Worcestershire.

I absolutely love the supermarket experience. I’m fluent and nobody knows I’m English. As a student (having already lived a year there) I had to get out my ID to prove my nationality, which was very flattering. I love the markets and cafe culture and would move there in a flash, but my OH doesn’t speak a word and is too concerned about communication with doctors/dentists to consider it.

notimagain · 23/08/2022 14:19

kersh33 · 23/08/2022 13:21

I think the final thing is that quite a lot of expat feedback ( including on this thread) is from people who lived very rurally which has a different set of challenges. I live in a large southern city by the sea with a large student population. There is an expat population but equally you can make friends outside of it if you get involved in other activities. There is lots to see and do, a great outdoors lifestyle and nice weather all year round (if you can cope with the heat in summer). But even within walking distance of the tran you can have a house with a pool, garden etc... so it doesn't all have to be hyper rural, cliquey areas.

@kersh33

I'm sure you're right...you need to pick your location carefully, but I'm not convinced that's simply down to France and the French..

You may recall when moving to France from UK was at it's height, maybe 10 -20 years it wasn't unusual to read gripes from some new arrivals on the appropriate forums about how far they were now living from supermarkets, cinemas, etc, and how hard going they were finding verses the UK because of the travelling, and how "the French" were supposedly almost uniquely unfriendly, cliquey or slow to warm to new arrivals.

On investigation/further discussion you often found the grumbles came from some who had moved from urban areas in the UK, green belt or the more densely populated parts of the UK....They maybe didn't realise it's perfectly possible to find yourself 10, 20 km or much more from the nearest supermarket in parts of the UK and some rural communities there can sure as heck be cliquey...

The real problem for some who moved here I'm sure wasn't caused by "France" , it was the move to a genuinely rural area...the country and nationality of the neighbours was almost irrelevant.

AlisonDonut · 23/08/2022 14:20

Footballmatchdilemma · 22/08/2022 12:51

I think it’s the sense of space and freedom to move around I like so much. Even Paris doesn’t feel as crowed as uk cities!

Interesting to hear all the different views though, thank you. I suppose everywhere has its negative points.

Space is good but for me it is the air.

Every day I get up and breathe in and it always smells good and it just relaxes you. I don't know what it is but I can just breathe here. Even in the middle of winter it smells great.

BMW6 · 23/08/2022 14:45

Footballmatchdilemma · 22/08/2022 10:50

@AlisonDonut well, the income would be the big one. No chance of doing what I do abroad with only my pigeon French 😩

Then you should concentrate your efforts on learning French here so you can get a job there!

Redqueenheart · 23/08/2022 14:48

I am a dual national. I was born and grew up in the South of France in the 80s then I moved to London and have lived in the UK all my adult life.

France is a beautiful country with great food (although as a vegetarian I find traditional French cuisine is way to rich and heavy for my taste) and culture and I like that the French don't let their government walk all over them. They also have a fantastic healthcare system.

But, when I lived in France I hated the bureaucracy, the widespread sexism and misogyny and I saw unbelievable levels of racism. The workplace is more formal there and schools are more rigid in their curriculum with little space for individuality. The society there in general was way too conformist for me. I also had some really bad experience as a child of bullying and sexual assault not being addressed at school. But that was in the 80s so hopefully things are different now.

If I am honest I would never live there again as it never really felt like home and because I have bad memories attached to it but I completely understand why people would enjoy living there, especially outside the big cities where the pace of life is much more relaxed.

Redqueenheart · 23/08/2022 14:51

I should have the heat is the South of the country and fires are a massive issue in the summer and that is only going to get worse. It already was the case when I lived there so I can only imagine what it must be like now....

babyjellyfish · 23/08/2022 15:23

I've been living in the Ile de France for five years now. The first two years were in a very dodgy part of Paris, then we moved to a very nice suburb.

Overall I find French people lovely, although I think it would be a lot harder to get to know people if I didn't speak good French. They are more direct than British people in the sense that they'll just say what they think rather than being passive aggressive, which can come across as rude at first but now I find it quite refreshing. If a French person is nice to you, they're being genuine.

The administration is a total ball ache. I rely on my French husband to do a lot of it, and even then he lapses and we end up with a mess to sort out. Things like taxes, healthcare, benefits, everything just takes so much more brain space than it does in the UK, even leaving aside any immigration stuff you might need to do as a foreign national.

The healthcare system is way, way better than the NHS. The admin side of things is a hassle, in terms of having to pay upfront and then send off paperwork to your health insurance to get reimbursed, but my god, the actual quality of the medical care you get is far superior.

Food and clothes are more expensive but people tend to buy quality over quantity. I don't think French cuisine is wildly exciting and I agree with PP that the restaurant scene is way better in London. But on a day to day basis we eat much better, with fresh bread from the boulangerie, meat from the butcher, fish, fruit and vegetables from the market. We eat much more seasonally. Mealtimes are an event, rather than just about refuelling.

Housing is more secure. Renters have far more rights in France than they do in the UK, to the point where being a landlord is actually fairly unattractive and the government has had to introduce tax incentive schemes to encourage people to buy to let, because you basically have to fight a lengthy court battle to kick your tenants out even if they haven't paid their rent for years. Rents can only be increased by a certain percentage each year. If you're in a position to buy, mortgage interest rates are cheaper than in the UK, and fixed for the entire term of the mortgage, which is usually 20 years. 25 years is seen as unusually long. This means that mortgage borrowing is substantially cheaper and less risky, and nobody in France is currently worrying about what happens next year when their fixed rate comes to an end.

On the other hand, fee free banking pretty much doesn't exist. You can expect to pay a fee each month for every debit card you have, which is annoying because my husband and I would like to have cards for both our individual accounts and the joint accounts, but it would be a significant added expense. I have an actual, in person bank manager who I've known since the day I opened my account, and he regularly calls me up to see how I'm doing. Credit cards don't really exist. The closest you can really get is a card where the payment of the balance is deferred for a month and taken from your linked current account the following month. They are mostly used for corporate purposes. This makes it really difficult for French people to hire cars and stay in certain hotels abroad. But it means that there aren't millions of French people juggling high amounts of personal debt either. Swings and roundabouts.

Maternity leave is much shorter. A standard maternity leave is 16 weeks, although you get longer for twins or a third child, and most women take 6 weeks before the birth and 10 weeks after. You need written permission from your doctor to work up to 38 weeks and take an additional three weeks after the birth. I find it absolutely crazy that women are signed off work 6 weeks before their due date, or sometimes even earlier if their doctor has concerns, but expected back in the office at 3 months postpartum.

Childcare is way, way cheaper, but can be a bit of a bunfight to sort out. To get a place in a public crèche you need to pre-register as soon as possible after your 12 week scan, and hope for the best. If you already have older children in the same crèche you are a priority case. There are various other ways of being a priority case. If you're not a priority case you cross your fingers and hope for the best, or possibly write to the mayor every week until they get sick of hearing from you and find you a place. If you get one, it's dirt cheap, even if you have to pay the full amount. If you don't earn much or you have lots of children, you pay a reduced amount. There isn't the same culture of women taking years off work to raise their own children.

The rules of the road are a bit bonkers - like having to give way to cars coming out of side roads from the right, for example - but the roads themselves are generally better maintained. A lot of roads are privately owned though, so there are a lot of tolls.

How clean it is depends a lot on the local population, and how good the local government is. Where I used to live, in Paris, it was absolutely filthy. Where I live now is squeaky clean.

Public transport is much, much cheaper, and if you live somewhere well connected, much better than in the UK. If you are employed, your employer has to pay 50% of your travel costs if you commute by public transport, which makes it even cheaper. High speed lines across the country mean very short journey times between the major cities.

I've only worked for one employer but I like the office culture, especially the work canteen and everyone taking a proper break at lunchtime to sit down and eat together. No sad sandwiches at desks. If you work for a big employer you can get some amazing perks too, like employee savings schemes where your employer pretty much matches what you put in, or 50% of your childcare paid. You can't use your holiday allowance until you've earned the days, which means that holidays are pretty thin on the ground for your first year in a new job, and then when you leave to go somewhere else, you get paid for the holiday you've accrued but not yet taken. To me this makes absolutely zero sense.

The voting system is much fairer and more representative. By the next election I should be a French citizen and I'm really looking forward to being able to cast a meaningful vote. Voting just seems like such a pointless waste of time in the UK.

I think I spent quite a few years trying to get my head around the baffling ways of the French and how the country actually works, and I still don't really understand it. All I know is that it does work. I'm not sure how, but it does.

Overall, I really like living there, and wouldn't move back. I think we have a way better quality of life in France than we would in the UK. And there certainly isn't this doom and gloom vibe in France that I get from people in the UK at the moment. French people love to complain and protest and go on strike, for sure, but that's just what they do, and it doesn't feel worse at the moment than at any other time.

Fluffruff · 23/08/2022 15:51

Interesting question. My only comment is we were recently at a wedding in France and a lot of the (French) young folk lived in London and boy did they love it compared to their lives in Paris - the freedom, the fashion, the coffee and food (this bit surprised me!). A young couple had unwillingly come back to live in Paris to be nearer grandparents and were moaning that stuff can be quiet formalised in Paris, some strict rules. I have to say I was surprised that these bunch of trendy Parisians preferred London!

Wildflowercottage · 23/08/2022 16:21

I moved to the South of France as a little girl and have lived in a few countries in my life. I could bang on all day and night about all of the things I love about this country, but the bottom line is that I'm happy every single day. Everything around me makes me smile, life is just so so so good. You couldn't pay me all the money in the world to move back to the UK. I'm due a visit back soon and am kind of dreading it to be honest.

mycarsnores · 23/08/2022 16:56

We lived in France for five years in a beautiful villa amongst the vineyards that we could never have afforded in the UK, BUT we were burgled twice! The first time was in the middle of the night, we were asleep, and I awoke to find a man shining a torch around our living room! The second time we were back in the UK visiting family.

When I discussed it with French friends afterwards, they were amazed that we didn’t hide all our valuables when leaving the property unoccupied. One woman confessed to hiding jewellery inside the dust bag of her vacuum cleaner! Another described it as ‘the French shame’ as it happens so often..

We called the Gendarmes but they weren’t interested, even though the telephone wire had been cut and extensive damage caused by the break-in.. they also told us we should never leave the property unoccupied again!

Our love affair with France ended then and we were relieved to sell up and return to the UK.

larkstar · 23/08/2022 18:10

My sister moved there in 2001 - it's a sweet and sour mix - she lives in a very rural area, was never interested in the ex-pat community, gets on well with the locals, has a nice rural life, lives in a beautiful - if remote - rural area - great for dog walks, running, peace and quiet BUT the bureaucracy/red tape drives her to distraction - and she's a stickler for doing things right (ex-auditor) - hates relying on French tradesmen - they turn up when the hell they feel like it - no apologies or phone calls. She missed not being able to find exactly what she could get in UK supermarkets - the cheeses and wines are great - but she makes do with a lot of things - the sausages have far too much fat and gristle in them - that kind of thing. She speaks highly of the health service and the climate is great where she lives if a little too hot but she find some old school French to be very awkward, unhelpful and rude (and sometimes untrustworthy) - she speaks very good French - overall I think she has a good life but it's taken many years to adapt. I love to visit but I'd never want to live there. She wouldn't want to return to the UK now - Brexit changed everything - she agrees with the views of her French acquaintances - that the UK is the laughing stock of Europe having shot itself in the foot by leaving.

TheBikiniExpert · 23/08/2022 18:21

I dream of retiring to France but realistically I don't think my French will ever be good enough!

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